Assisted Suicide: Way to go?

[Pebble]

That's my problem with assisted suicide, I don't want to be helped to die just for a post mortem to discover I wasn't exactly myself at the time!



The question arises who is best placed to safeguard the right to your life - you or the state! There are of course risks inherent in the 'right' to self determination, the question for me is at what point do the risks outweight the benefit?
What is the origin of the general prohibition of suicide? Is it so that the state or main religions have prohibited suicide to facilitate compliance among the population to otherwise intolerable conditions? Alternately, it is also possible that this prohibition became necessary is most societies because of the ease with which the gullible and weak could be induced to take this option rather than fight for justice when abused by those stronger than themselves - i.e. thieves, bullies etc.

[Floppit]

The question arises who is best placed to safeguard the right to your life - you or the state! I'd love to be able to answer wholeheartedly 'ME of course!' but, just as I outlined above, when I needed that reasoning the most it might be when I am least able. In the long run I want to see assisted suicide legalised, I'm just not sure we have the right tools just yet to ensure a person is truly making their decision.

My issue isn't so much with suicide as it is with assisted suicide. Suicide will always exist and, without doubt, sometimes it can be truly tragic, others an understandable relief - either way, if successful the 'doer' is dead and therefore safe from regret. Assisted suicide is different, while 'Dignitas' (sp?) may offer a service without emotional connection the same can't be said for the loved ones that help with the journey - it does involve more than one person and inevitably complicates things. I'm less worried about hard abuse, murder has always been possible and the elderly are vulnerable; assisted suicide is probably not the easiest way and therefore I don't think it's enough reason to bar it. But, what about a softer flavour of abuse? In reality it's not so much the state I rely on to guard me if I lose faculties (although it's assistance is welcomed!) as those who love and KNOW me, the latter being of the utmost importance. What about the people who are simply over ready to help because of their own beliefs or for inheritance, or just convenience? People can be downright STRANGE about elderly relatives, really, really strange. Even loving people who demonstrate very real care can get odd - I can't tell stories here, except perhaps to say it will be very interesting to see how the MCA develops over issues such as putting people in care homes.

All I know is that jaw dropping oddness isn't rare, it's a part of most working weeks for me! It's families as much, if not far more so, than the state that truly decide.

[Nukapai]

What well thought-through replies from you, Floppit. O0

I would argue that one is never "like oneself" when seriously ill; especially if there is pain, the prospects are bleak or for a number of other reasons that don't have to affect cognitive ability as directly as you describe.

Therefore, it could be said that nobody who opts for assisted suicide is quite themselves.

It's difficult, of course it is, to define something this complex. I hope somebody does. The option really ought to be available (and preferably on the NHS, locally, so that it wouldn't be just restricted to those who can afford it. Believe me when I say that in many cases where people need to get out through suicide because they're terminally ill, there is no inheritance as a motive for those left behind, quite the opposite).

[Pebble]

What well thought-through replies from you, Floppit. O0

I would argue that one is never "like oneself" when seriously ill; especially if there is pain, the prospects are bleak or for a number of other reasons that don't have to affect cognitive ability as directly as you describe.

Therefore, it could be said that nobody who opts for assisted suicide is quite themselves.
.


Can't really agree with that. Most people I know with chronic terminal diseases adapt to their limitations, many consider the option of suicide, but as long as well managed prefer to continue the struggle. A sizable minority voice the idea that suicide would be better, but one exploring the idea with them this is usually simply (correction appears to me to be) an expression of frustration (sometimes with the limits of their treatment). Others rationally consider their choices and have come to a conclusion entirely compatible with their general approach to decision making that termination of their existence is the best available option.

For these people it is difficult to argue that they are 'not quite themselves' - creating laws to differentiate between the different groups that consider suicide as an option is however impossible without accepting the a degree of risk that this 'freedom' will not be abused.

[Nukapai]

Can't really agree with that. Most people I know with chronic terminal diseases adapt to their limitations, many consider the option of suicide, but as long as well managed prefer to continue the struggle. A sizable minority voice the idea that suicide would be better, but one exploring the idea with them this is usually simply (correction appears to me to be) an expression of frustration (sometimes with the limits of their treatment). Others rationally consider their choices and have come to a conclusion entirely compatible with their general approach to decision making that termination of their existence is the best available option.

For these people it is difficult to argue that they are 'not quite themselves' - creating laws to differentiate between the different groups that consider suicide as an option is however impossible without accepting the a degree of risk that this 'freedom' will not be abused.

Hmm. You seem to have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was probably not being clear enough (I was answering Floppit's point directly, which means I didn't elaborate much).

I agree with all of what you say. And in fact, the points you make echo and support what I was trying to say - illness changes people (but the very point I was trying to make is that this does not = that they're not of sound mind).

Where Floppit appeared to be making a distinction was in the decision making process for suicide: that the definitions could become difficult if there is some physical cause, such as in the example used, that makes one change behaviour from the norm.

My mother decided to commit suicide and I respect her decision. It was that, or seeing whether she'd make it the 2 or so years docs had given her (and putting up with debilitating pain for the whole time).

EDIT: Can't edit the original post to try and clarify what I said. I'll put it here then -




I would argue that one is never "like oneself" when seriously ill; especially if there is pain, the prospects are bleak or for a number of other reasons that don't have to affect cognitive ability as directly as you describe. [EDITED FOR CLARITY)] Illness changes people. This doesn't necessarily make them incompetent to make a decision, mad or "not of sound mind", but illness definitely chances how one thinks. Like with any traumatic experience, you're just not the same during it/afterwards.

Therefore, [EDITED FOR CLARITY] someone could easily argue be that "nobody who opts for assisted suicide is quite themselves" (because by definition, to qualify for assisted suicide one has to be terminally ill).

It's difficult, of course it is, to define something this complex. I hope somebody does. The option really ought to be available (and preferably on the NHS, locally, so that it wouldn't be just restricted to those who can afford it. Believe me when I say that in many cases where people need to get out through suicide because they're terminally ill, there is no inheritance as a motive for those left behind, quite the opposite).

[Nukapai]

And if we want to dig really deep into what policymakers will have to face - what happens when the terminally ill person in question has pre-existing mental illness? Does this stop them from ever being able to be considered for assisted suicide? That would be harsh, but how would one draw the line? ???