So what frequency is a spirit?

[Tin Lizzie]

So the frequency we are referring to is in brain waves - is that correct? If that is so, are we talking about using electromagnetic waves to communicate from the dead to the brain of a receiver (given that brain waves, or rythms, are electromagnetic)?

As I say I have no deep knowledge on this matter of brainwaves. My own speculation on the involvement of brainwaves is based on what I have mentioned regarding the effects of meditation. there are no doubt mediums more knowledgable than myself who do not know of this forum; maybe they could expound further.

So, maybe electromagnetic waves are a possible medium?

[Admin]

If you have nothing to contribute other than serious discussion without referring to mockery, stay out of this thread please.

Simon's point was both valid and relevant. It's the 'God of the Gaps' argument. This is where people assign things they do not understand to God.

[Admin]

So, maybe electromagnetic waves are a possible medium?

That would make them detectable and measurable!!

I suspect that you'll have to abandon this theory rather sharpish.

[Tin Lizzie]

That would make them detectable and measurable!!

I suspect that you'll have to abandon this theory rather sharpish.

Why, exactly - i suspect this has been analysed before? Reliably?

[Tin Lizzie]

Simon's point was both valid and relevant. It's the 'God of the Gaps' argument. This is where people assign things they do not understand to God.

i haven't even mentioned my big boss yet, why bring him up if, as you stressed to me earlier, this is about frequencies?

[Admin]

i haven't even mentioned my big boss yet, why bring him up if, as you stressed to me earlier, this is about frequencies?

Simon used an analogy between people who use the God of the Gaps argument and people like you who use the same type of argument to keep your beliefs essentially unknowable.

Which is why you'll have to abandon your electromagnetic hypothesis. If it's testable it will be found wanting so you'll just end up abandoning it in favour of something untestable.

[SimonC]

If you have nothing to contribute other than serious discussion without referring to mockery, stay out of this thread please.

My post was not intended as 'mockery', and I'm sorry that you took it as such.

The point of the analogy that I was drawing, is that all paranormal beliefs reach a point where 'magical thinking' is required, and this,definitively, is where we choose ( or as skeptics choose not ) to make a leap-of-faith.

A few posts ago, you posited that an 'increase in the frequency of brain waves' makes it easier to 'receive' from the spirit plane. Indeed, you suggested that this was "obvious".

For this hypothesis to have any validity, wouldn't it be absolutely necessary to define your terms precisely, when referring to 'energy', 'vibrations', etc, in the context of the spirit plane? Simply suggesting that these phenomena are 'different' to our concepts of such really is magical-thinking. Again, I really see this in the same category ( and the same fundamental flaw in the argument ) as the theological point.

Again, sorry if you felt that I was mocking - that was not my intention. I will, however, politely decline to comply with your request that I should not participate further in this thread.

Cheers,

S

[Tin Lizzie]

My post was not intended as 'mockery', and I'm sorry that you took it as such.

The point of the analogy that I was drawing, is that all paranormal beliefs reach a point where 'magical thinking' is required, and this,definitively, is where we choose ( or as skeptics choose not ) to make a leap-of-faith.

A few posts ago, you posited that an 'increase in the frequency of brain waves' makes it easier to 'receive' from the spirit plane. Indeed, you suggested that this was "obvious".

For this hypothesis to have any validity, wouldn't it be absolutely necessary to define your terms precisely, when referring to 'energy', 'vibrations', etc, in the context of the spirit plane? Simply suggesting that these phenomena are 'different' to our concepts of such really is magical-thinking. Again, I really see this in the same category ( and the same fundamental flaw in the argument ) as the theological point.

Again, sorry if you felt that I was mocking - that was not my intention. I will, however, politely decline to comply with your request that I should not participate further in this thread.

Cheers,

S

No worries, just another example of how the two sides interpret things differently.

The thing for me is that I am trying to solve this backwards - I know the spirits are there and I would love to be able to prove this scientifically and not just because it would make me more famous than Britney Spears, probably.
Sadly I don't think it's possible yet. I am going to plough along all avenues though - I mean, it wasn't until too recently that it was discovered that the natural 'homing' mechanism of many animals is actually dependent on the magnetic fields (often referred to as 'ley lines' in mystical legend).

[Tin Lizzie]

Simon used an analogy between people who use the God of the Gaps argument and people like you who use the same type of argument to keep your beliefs essentially unknowable.

Which is why you'll have to abandon your electromagnetic hypothesis. If it's testable it will be found wanting so you'll just end up abandoning it in favour of something untestable.

Oh now there's logic for you.

So, I am putting forward an idea with a mind to progress.

You are putting forward.....what are you bringing to this discussion?

If it can be tested - great! I doubt it will prove or disprove anything though...

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Oh now there's logic for you.

So, I am putting forward an idea with a mind to progress.

You are putting forward.....what are you bringing to this discussion?

If it can be tested - great! I doubt it will prove or disprove anything though...

I don't think you understand the concept of testing.

[Tin Lizzie]

I don't think you understand the concept of testing.

I don't think you have bothered even trying to understand what I have put forward.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I don't think you have bothered even trying to understand what I have put forward.

I don't really understand what you are saying. Electromagnetic waves. Ok, what next though.

[Zaira]

Children! Stop the fighting!

Here. Check this out.

And don't shoot the messenger!

http://www.peterussell.com/SP/PsychicEnergy.php

[chillzero]

Sadly I don't think it's possible yet. I am going to plough along all avenues though - I mean, it wasn't until too recently that it was discovered that the natural 'homing' mechanism of many animals is actually dependent on the magnetic fields (often referred to as 'ley lines' in mystical legend).

Actually, I think this is incorrect. I'll try and find the article I read about how this has been disproven, and it seems to rely heavily on scent, rather than magnetic north. Even when it was believed it was due to magentic fields - this was still not related to ley lines.

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

Children! Stop the fighting!

Here. Check this out.

And don't shoot the messenger!

http://www.peterussell.com/SP/PsychicEnergy.php

I've had a read. I still wouldn't say I am any closer to understanding psychic energy though. It sounds like a 'feeling' rather than anything else. If that feeling of warmth or whatever is empirical then it should be possible to measure. e.g. increase in heat being radiated from the body. If that feeling is just in the mind - then that probably tells me all I need to know about psychic energy.