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Thread: Chinese medicine kills

  1. #1

    Chinese medicine kills

    Certainly looks like it in this case:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

    Chines herbal medicine killed a young woman who used it to treat a stomach upset and skin rash, an inquest heard.


    The remedy caused Ling Wang's liver and other organs to shut down.
    The 25-year-old was taken to hospital but slipped into a coma and died. She was too ill to tell doctors which medicine she had taken, and experts found it hard to analyse. But after hearing evidence from three specialists, coroner Karen Graham concluded there could be no other reason for the death of Chinese-born Miss Wang, a Newcastle University PhD student.
    .....
    Mousse from a bowl is very nice, but to put it on a person is demented!

  2. #2

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Sad, but not exactly surprising since Traditional Chinese Medicine is far from safe. This from the Archives of Family Medicine in November 2000:
    A comprehensive survey tried to establish the nature and frequency of adverse events of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) in Australia. A total of 3,222 adverse events of acupuncture were reported by 1,100 providers of TCM during their practice lifetimes. These included 64 pneumothoraces and 80 cases with convulsions. The same group reported 860 adverse events of Chinese herbal medicines. These included 130 cases of severe gastrointestinal symptoms, 34 cases of jaundice, 29 cases of hepatotoxicity, 28 cases of renal toxicity and 19 fatalities.

    http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/9/10/1071
    More here:
    People who take traditional Chinese mediicnes could be risking their health, the Committee on Safety of Medicines warned yesterday after findinng repeated evidence that some contain cancer-causing toxins and prohibited steroids.

    The tough stance of the CSM, which advises the drug regulatory body, the medicines control agency, will dismay the rising numbers buying what they assume are harmless herbal remedies over the counter.

    But in spite of previous warnings, the CSM says random tests continue to find banned substances, such as the herb aristolochia - used to treat rheumatism and skin conditions - which was associated with two cases of kidney failure in the UK in 1999 and which can also cause cancer.
    Steroids have repeatedly been found in preparations for eczema and psoriasis which are often bought by people to avoid using steroidal creams prescribed by doctors.

    Sometimes the quantity of illegal steroids in the Chinese medicines has been greater than that considered safe in licensed medicines, particularly for children. Mercury and arsenic compounds have also been found.

    Alastair Breckenridge, CSM chairman, said: "There is clear evidence that standards used in the production of some traditional Chinese medicines on the UK market are, at best, unreliable.

    Read on…

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/sep/28/medicalscience.highereducation

    And these were the conclusions of a recent systematic review which took a comprehensive look at herbal medicines:
    Individualised herbal medicine, as practised in European medical herbalism, Chinese herbal medicine and Ayurvedic herbal medicine, has a very sparse evidence base and there is no convincing evidence that it is effective in any indication. Because of the high potential for adverse events and negative herb–herb and herb–drug interactions, this lack of evidence for effectiveness means that its use cannot be recommended.

    A systematic review of randomised clinical trials of individualised herbal medicine in any indication, R Guo, P H Canter, E Ernst, Postgraduate Medical Journal 2007;83:633-637

    http://pmj.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/83/984/633
    It’s appalling that the relevant regulatory bodies don’t appear to be making this information known loud and clear to the general public.
    Last edited by Blue Wode; 25th March 2008 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Emphasis

  3. #3

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    My wife went behind my back once to a Chinese practitioner. She got this totally foul 'tea' that you made by boiling a lot of odd looking bits of plants and barks.

    I made her bin it as soon as I found out. It was absolutely stinking, I never forget that smell.
    Mousse from a bowl is very nice, but to put it on a person is demented!

  4. #4

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    You "made her bin it", eh? Who was the other guy who "told" his missis she wasn't going to write and complain about the embryo bill as the sky-pilot had told her to. You fellas certainly have your wives well disciplined. How's it done?

  5. #5

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Quote Originally Posted by SKIRRID5 View Post
    You fellas certainly have your wives well disciplined. How's it done?
    He probably forgot to tell us about the week sleeping on the sofa
    Defendants might as well have said: Beneficent creatures from the 17th dimension use this bracelet as a beacon to locate people who need pain relief and whisk them off to their home world every night to provide help in ways unknown to our science.
    Judge Frank Easterbrook commenting on the Q-Ray bracelet


    "For Gods sake you're an American! Stop thinking of the consequences and blow something up" - Stan Smith, American Dad!

  6. #6

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
    He probably forgot to tell us about the week sleeping on the sofa
    I think she was quite happy because she was almost making herself sick drinking it .....

    Seriously though, I treated it in an educational way. I told her how it might be having an effect on her body but might not be the one she wanted, there was no evidence to support the claims made, and that it could potentially be dangerous to her. Took a bit of convincing, but in the end it went in the bin.
    Mousse from a bowl is very nice, but to put it on a person is demented!

  7. #7

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Worth noting also, of course, is the fact that Chinese medicine kills long before point-of-sale. Rhino and tiger are being hunted to extinction to fuel the demand for their carcasses in the Far East.

    Just a little anti-anthropocentric side note.

    http://sceptical-i.blogspot.com/2008...ht-i-feel.html

  8. #8

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwinter View Post
    Worth noting also, of course, is the fact that Chinese medicine kills long before point-of-sale. Rhino and tiger are being hunted to extinction to fuel the demand for their carcasses in the Far East.

    Just a little anti-anthropocentric side note.

    http://sceptical-i.blogspot.com/2008...ht-i-feel.html
    Not only that, but it also causes horrendous suffering and death for thousands of Asiatic black bears. This from yesterday's Telegraph:


    Bears rescued from 'hellish' Chinese bile farm

    Bears that have suffered years of cruelty and ill-treatment on Chinese bile farms have been rescued.

    The 28 Moon bears were in a pitiful condition when they were brought to a rescue centre in Chengdu, Sichuan Province.

    Workers from the Animals Asia Foundation (AAF) tragically found one male bear dead when it arrived, its body still warm.

    Another had to be put down and another died of its injuries within hours of arrival.

    AAF founder and CEO, Jill Robinson who has worked for 10 years in Asia rescuing bears and trying to put an end to the farms, said she was shocked by the condition of the animals.

    "All were in impossibly small cages, all skeletal, wounded in various ways, and terrified of what would happen in this next stage of their lives," she said.

    "Some are blind, some have shattered teeth and grotesquely ulcerated gums, some have shocking necrotic wounds - their flesh literally rotting down to the bones - and all out of their minds with fear.

    "Most had open wounds in their abdomens from the free-drip method of bile-extraction, with some leaking bile, blood and pus."

    -snip-

    Bear bile, like rhino horn and tiger parts, is highly prized for use in Chinese traditional medicines. A chinese rural farmer with an income of just over £1 per week can sell a kilo of bear bile for £150.

    Although synthetic alternatives to the bile are now widely available the illicit trade continues to flourish condemning bears caught in traps in the wild to unimaginable horrors. Often the animals caught in steel traps lose paws and then injure themselves further because of the appalling and cramped conditions in tiny cages.

    Asiatic black bears, known as Moon Bears because of the golden crescents on their chests, can end up spending up to 25 years in coffin-sized cages where they are 'milked' daily for their bile, often through crude and filthy catheters causing the animals intense pain.

    The bears are also milked through permanently open holes in their abdomens in what is claimed to be a more humane free-dripping technique. It is the only permitted method of bile extraction in China, but still causes constant pain and the slow death of the bears.

    -snip-

    …the latest batch of tormented and disfigured bears provided further proof that the trade is as brutal as ever. Although the trade in bear products is illegal in China there is a flourishing black market.

    The demand for bear bile is greatest in China, Japan and Korea but bear parts, bile powder and bile products are also found in Australia, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, the US and Canada.

    The bile is still used in traditional medicine for a range of complaints including fever, liver disease and sore eyes.

    Two years ago, the EU launched a campaign to urge the Chinese government to end bear farming by 2008.

    It is though there are more than 7,000 bears are still trapped in farms throughout China.

    Full article here (warning – distressing photographs):
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/04/03/eabears103.xml

  9. #9

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    It really is unbelievable that countries considered civilised and modern can still be under the delusion that these beautiful animals are here to be abused for no reason except their unfounded beliefs. I know someone will say it's their culture and they don't perhaps understand anything different to the things they've been taught and I do understand that, we are all brainwashed to some extent, but surely in this day & age and in a so called modern society how is this happening ....although having said that they still leave unwanted babies on the roadside.

  10. #10

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Bears rescued from 'hellish' Chinese bile farm
    These kinds of cruelty just break my heart as does cruelty to children and to any living thing that is unable to defend themselves.

  11. #11
    Junior Member Rat's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaris View Post
    These kinds of cruelty just break my heart as does cruelty to children and to any living thing that is unable to defend themselves.
    Cabbages?

  12. #12

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Quote Originally Posted by Rat View Post
    Cabbages?
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=GgvwpxC7Uuw

    Thank you for diverting this conversation to a point at which I may quote Messers Fry and Laurie.

    "Never heard a lettuce scream before?"

    That is all.
    Self-sucussion - the quick and easy route to superpowers!

    My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout

  13. #13

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    More sad news about the Moon bears.
    Almost half of the bears rescued recently from horrendous conditions on Chinese bile farms have died.

    The Asiatic black bears - known as Moon bears because of the distinctive white crescent on their chest - had spent most of their lives locked in tiny cages being 'milked' of the bile used in traditional Chinese medicine.

    They were brought to the Animals Asia rescue centre in Chengdu in the Sichuan Province founded 10 years ago by Briton Jill Robinson but many were past help.

    "They all needed abdominal surgery and were grossly underweight at about 50 kilos when they should weigh 150 kilos. Some of these animals had been kept on the farms for 20 years and had no teeth or claws," said Robinson on a fund-raising tour of the UK.

    "Ten of the bears died within 11 days and post-mortems showed most of them were suffering from liver cancer probably caused by the catheters inserted into their stomachs to drain the bile.

    Read on…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/06/18/eabears118.xml
    However, there is a way to help:
    The charity says it is making progress and has supporters in powerful positions in government. Animals Asia has won the right to accompany officials when they carry out farm inspections which allows them to expose some of the worst offenders.

    -snip-

    The charity which has 230 staff worldwide, needs about £50,000 per month to survive, the bulk of which comes from donations.
    More information can be found at www.animalsasia.org

  14. #14

    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Since chinese medicine kills why are so many chines medicine shops popping up all over the uk?

    Im sure if I set up shop selling herbs and my customers died off two things would happen.

    1. My customers would dwindle.
    2. The police would be bursting through my door.

    Why hasnt this happened to chines herbal medicine stores yet?

    Also how do they get the rights from the local councils to set up shop in the first place if there is so much evidence that they are nought more than chinese terrorists insidiously inviting the good British people of this nation to kill themselves by their very own hands, ingesting toxic substances that they willingly pay well over the odds for?

    Regards,

    Den.

  15. #15
    Hero member Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Chinese medicine kills

    Quote Originally Posted by British Sceptic View Post
    Since chinese medicine kills why are so many chines medicine shops popping up all over the uk?

    Im sure if I set up shop selling herbs and my customers died off two things would happen.

    1. My customers would dwindle.
    2. The police would be bursting through my door.

    Why hasnt this happened to chines herbal medicine stores yet?
    Hi Den,

    Did you read the rest of the thread.

    It's because it's not usually the customers that are dying.

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