Trance Possession

[VoodooJoe]

Hi guys

I was wondering if you could help me with some research.
I was hoping you wouldn’t mind sharing your thoughts and views on the phenomenon of trance possession in West African and African diasporic religions (Vodun, Haitian Vodou, Candomble, Santeria etc)

I am interested in your own personal views, ideas and theories as well as any scientific research you may have come across (be it psychiatric, psychological, anthropological, medical or whatever.)

My main focus for research is on traditions with their roots in West Africa, however I would also be grateful any personal reflections or links to research of other religions/cultures that incorporate trance possession into their belief system.

Many Thanks

VoodooJoe

[bobdezon]

I would imagine that it would be quite easy to manipulate the peoples of a society steeped in a superstition. I wonder if its merely social compliance in many cases, that seems to be the controlling factor in vodun. If a person believes in the superstition, they can act accordingly or be exposed as an "unbeliever". Its not just west africans who are susceptible to this though, anthropomorphologicaly Ive seen italians claiming possession do similar things. In some american religions we have the snake possessions and speaking in tongues etc its all very psychogenic. Victorian england was very holier than thou too, no society seems to be exempt from its influences.

There is some work available which may help you out, look for R. D. Laing cultural expectations and compulsion on google scholar.

[ForAllOfThis]

I agree with the social compliance theory. Being exposed as a non-believer could be dangerous to the individual, which makes compliance an easy option.
On that actual state trance itself:

http://www.psychnet-uk.com/dsm_iv/tr...n_disorder.htm

I personally view it as a disorder. However it does remind me of split personality disorder abit, and there are definitely similarities between the disorders.

[VoodooJoe]

Thank you for all your replies so far.

Social compliance could well be a factor in some places and is a very reasonable assumption, however bear in mind within these traditions (for the most part) non-believers generally tend to be treated with indifference rather than aggression.
Also bear in mind that trance possession produces some physiological phenomena which is hard to fake (resistance to extreme pain, vomiting, contortions of muscles etc), indeed people faking trance are not that difficult to spot and openly ridiculed by the congregation (it can be custom to jeer at fakers in some trads)

ForAllOfThis i like your theory connecting trance possession with MPD, trance possession could well be some form of acute psychosis induced by certain factors, what facinates me though is that trance possession is not a rare occurance within these religions, it is extremely common, in fact it is considered strange (though not taboo) if you dont experience trance at some point, which (if going with the psychosis theory) would suggest to me that these individuals are not suffering from a disorder but experiencing something that most people are susceptible to, is it possible to induce a temporary psychosis in a healthy individual?

[bobdezon]

Go to youtube, search for benny hinn. I think that will answer your question.

[VoodooJoe]

Go to youtube, search for benny hinn. I think that will answer your question.

LOL, that was interesting, but it doesnt really answer my question in regards to an induced acute psychotic episode, i would be more inclined to think Benny Hinns followers give more weight to social compliance theory.

[ForAllOfThis]

ForAllOfThis i like your theory connecting trance possession with MPD, trance possession could well be some form of acute psychosis induced by certain factors, what facinates me though is that trance possession is not a rare occurance within these religions, it is extremely common, in fact it is considered strange (though not taboo) if you dont experience trance at some point, which (if going with the psychosis theory) would suggest to me that these individuals are not suffering from a disorder but experiencing something that most people are susceptible to, is it possible to induce a temporary psychosis in a healthy individual?

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you. Firstly anyone can claim they had a trance posession, doesn't mean that they experienced anything (you did say it was taboo not to have one). In which case social compliance could explain the 'everyone experiences it at one point'.

To prove my point ill give an example from western cultures, if a 40 year old man was a virgin, he would never admit it. It would be too embarrassing for him. In which case he would lie and say he has experienced sex, but really he hasn't.

I also have to agree experiencing it on a one off basis isn't a disorder (as disorders mean that they have to happen frequently and effect your ability to cope with life). However the priests that practice the posession on a daily or weekly basis could be described as having a disorder.

Your final point, inducing a temporary psychosis brings me to my final theory, which is drugs. Im pretty sure they will have some hallucigens in africa in which most of the locals can obtain from grounding some magic herb or mushroom. Once they take the hallucigen then all their cultural background kicks in and influences their hallucinations to include being posessed or being told how to act or what to say by some form of spirit god. Then a lack of scientific knowledge to the individual means that the only explanation to what that person seen and/or heard is trance possession.

[VoodooJoe]

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you. Firstly anyone can claim they had a trance posession, doesn't mean that they experienced anything .

True, and this isnt something that should be ruled out.

(you did say it was taboo not to have one). In which case social compliance could explain the 'everyone experiences it at one point'..

No, i said it wasnt considered taboo, though it may be considered strange in that it is a rarity.

In fact people who are ultra prone to trance are sometimes considered to be weak willed (this is especially true in some of the new world forms of the tradition.).

Your final point, inducing a temporary psychosis brings me to my final theory, which is drugs. Im pretty sure they will have some hallucigens in africa in which most of the locals can obtain from grounding some magic herb or mushroom. ..

Kola nut (a stimulant) is used in some parts west africa (especially benin), however this is unusual, drug use during ceremonies is usually considered innapropriate, the idea being an intoxicated body is an impure vessel for the spirits to inhabit.

[wooo_oops]

Now, look into my eyes, no, not around the eyes...

I think it could be a form of mass hypnosis - perhaps performed by demagogues and brought about with the application of rhythmic percussive music.
One wouldn't need a drug to induce a hypnotic trance in this case.

When you read the dsm iv classification of Trance and Possession Disorder (although I understand that what they are talking about is something a bit more intractable) the symptoms are very similar to an hypnotic trance induced by a stage hypnotist. Socially compliant (or weak-willed) people seem to be easily induced into a trance the whole world over...

321 you're backintheroom.

[ForAllOfThis]

I quite like that theory.

It fits.

I suspect its a mixture of everything that has been discussed within this thread. With each priest theyre may be a different explanation to the trance possession. I hope an oppurtunity for me to live in and work in (or with) such a culture presents itself sometime in the future. It would be fascinating =).

Also apologies to Joe. I wasn't reading properly =).

[dalriada]

Human beings cannot bear too much reality. We just can't. Therefore once a group of people in any culture have enough to eat and drink, the next thing on the agenda is pretty much always, getting off your face. There are many ways of doing this and drugs and alcohol are high on the list, in situations in which such substances are note easily obtainable or prohibited, other methods of obtaining a shift in consciousness come in to play such as chanting, dancing, drumming, sex, sensory deprivation etc. even self-inflicted harm or self-imposed starvation. Groups whose activities are monitored or restricted, such as slaves or Victorian women are more likely to be involved in non-chemically induced ways of achieving trance. Also, for disempowered or marginal groups, such rituals can take on considerably more personal and social significance than for mainstream groups where such things are more likely to be seen as entertainment rather than of religious significance.

As far as possession goes, sometimes the only way a Nobody, can be a Somebody , is to be somebody else...

If any of these posts find their way into your essay VJ, I assume they will be appropriately referenced as a UK Skeptics Forum discussion? Or is that stretching the limits of belief too far...?