in the Daily mail: Women warned of the Dangers in 'herbal HRT'

[Ginger Rogers]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1774

[Admin]

It's the same old story. People assume that anything labelled as 'natural' must be harmless. I find it disconcerting just how keen people are to try anything based on anecdotal evidence or unsubstantiated claims.

If these products do have an effect on the body then they are, by definition, drugs. That means they can have side effects or they could even be dangerous.

Unless they have been scientifically tested, no one knows what these 'natural' products do. Something that eases symptoms of the menopause may actually work for that problem! But it may be attacking your kidneys at the same time. No one knows...

[Ginger Rogers]

I wonder why there isn't some kind of law against giving people 'drugs' which have never been properly tested. There should be some kind of regulatory body or something?!

[Physiotherapist]

From another viewpoint, HRT has been tested supposedly and still has side effects!!

Think about that for a moment.

[Mongrel]

From another viewpoint, HRT has been tested supposedly and still has side effects!!

Think about that for a moment.

You're forgetting about the regular appointments with the Doctor to monitor and (where possible) control the side effects. Even if the side effects are not controllable there are normally other, different drugs to try that will be more suitable for the recipient

[Physiotherapist]

In a woman's life, starting periods, pregnancy and childbirth and the menopause and perfectly normal physiology, so why seek a 'cure' for what is perfectly normal?

It is my feeling that lots of women see the menopause as an illness - IT IS NOT and is a perfectly normal part of a woman's life. It is just switching from one part of life to the next.

Lots of women sail through the menopause without taking anything.

If women want to use herbal alternatives, then they should go and see a qualified medical herbalist who knows what they are doing. They are also trained fully in differential diagnosis and know when to refer on to others I think the problems arise when OTC herbs are purchased and then taken in isolation. If you see a herbalist, they would never give you just one herb. They would normally give you a tincture containing about 4 ot 5 different tinctures that work synergistically.

[chillzero]

In a woman's life, starting periods, pregnancy and childbirth and the menopause and perfectly normal physiology, so why seek a 'cure' for what is perfectly normal?

It is my feeling that lots of women see the menopause as an illness - IT IS NOT and is a perfectly normal part of a woman's life. It is just switching from one part of life to the next.

Lots of women sail through the menopause without taking anything.

And a lot of women do not. A lot of women suffer terribly from the moment their first period begins. The problem is not these perfectly normal occurrences, it is how some women's bodies tackle the effects. Why should women have to endure crippling pain, feverish temperatures, and often violent moodswings, if they can be treated?

If women want to use herbal alternatives, then they should go and see a qualified medical herbalist who knows what they are doing. They are also trained fully in differential diagnosis and know when to refer on to others I think the problems arise when OTC herbs are purchased and then taken in isolation. If you see a herbalist, they would never give you just one herb. They would normally give you a tincture containing about 4 ot 5 different tinctures that work synergistically.

Women with "female problems" should visit their GP regularly, and not allow them to fob them off as believing the problem is just because they are women, and women have to deal with this kind of thing. The changes that occur are hormonal, and therefore require proper monitoring. I believe that quite often women turn to alternative therapies in these cases when faced by (usually) male GPs who believe that women see these natural events in their life as illnesses, and that they should just buck up and get over it. It's not that simple. Blood sugars drop dramtically, blood pressures rise, hormone levels alter and all these things cause symptoms that can become impossible to live with - for not just the woman, but her family as well.

[tkingdoll]

In a woman's life, starting periods, pregnancy and childbirth and the menopause and perfectly normal physiology, so why seek a 'cure' for what is perfectly normal?

It is my feeling that lots of women see the menopause as an illness - IT IS NOT and is a perfectly normal part of a woman's life. It is just switching from one part of life to the next.

Lots of women sail through the menopause without taking anything.

What a bizarre argument. Many women used to die in childbirth, that was 'natural' too, until we developed drugs and procedures to stop that happening. Perhaps you think doctors should just let women take their chances with nature and die or live according to that?

Childhood illnesses are also normal, perhaps we should avoid avoid immunisation against measles, mumps and rubella and let them develop their own immunity by getting the diseases.

Pain is normal. But we take painkillers because we can.

Some women suffer incredible amounts of pain, as well as severe mood swings, temperature fluctuations etc because of the menopause. Suggesting that they should just be left to get on with it is not only cruel, it's contrary to the entire point of medicine.

I find your attitude rather staggering. By your logic, there would be no medicine at all, as all disease and illness fits the 'normal' criteria that you supply. At one point in our not too distant past, average life expectancy was 40. That was normal. And according to you, what's normal should be left alone.

Thanks, in the most part, to the development of medicine, life expectancy has now doubled.

Just because 'lots' of women sail through the menopause without taking anything, does that mean that all women don't need to? Really? I hope you seriously think about doing some research and changing your attitude, because it does a great disservice to medicine and to millions of women worldwide who don't have to suffer needlessly thanks to HRT.

[Allo Allo]

I also, at one time, was interested in what I think is something which has never been scientifically investigated and might or might not be true - and that is the idea that women in a tribal situation have a much better journey through menopause than "we" do. One explanation of this (if it is a fact) is that they expect to have very few problems, and afterwards they achieve status in the tribe. We make a big "thing" out of menopause and expect problems as told us in the press/media etc and when we've had it we are demoted to being "old". I don't know where one would find studies to back up such an idea.

From my own observations, I have noticed from anecdotal stories that Mothers/daughters' experiences during menopause can be similarly easy or dreadful so - though I don't know this - one would assume that you might be able to predict what your own menopause might be like from the experience of your mother or grandmother. I have no source to back this up - it's a question!

I know someone whose menopause was so terrible, one could only have likened it to an "illness". Even with proper orthodox treatment she took a long time to become "well". My own opinion is that we should take advantage of whatever accepted medications can help - INCLUDING! - (no skep attack please!) MKB therapy (touch therapies.) Many drugs are natural remedies focused.

I think we have progressed simply by medical science recognising PMT and being able to help. When I was young - not SO long ago! women who suffered it were just considered foul belligerent bitches.


M :)

[Allo Allo]

I rather enjoyed this! - http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020920.html

M

[Admin]

If women want to use herbal alternatives, then they should go and see a qualified medical herbalist who knows what they are doing.

And how do we find a 'qualified medical herbalist'?

There's no science behind this form of quackery.

They are also trained fully in differential diagnosis and know when to refer on to others I think the problems arise when OTC herbs are purchased and then taken in isolation. If you see a herbalist, they would never give you just one herb. They would normally give you a tincture containing about 4 ot 5 different tinctures that work synergistically.

They mix and match 4 or 5 different herbs without any real idea of what they're doing. They don't know what ingredients are in the herbs and they certainly don't know what potential compounds they end up with in their 'remedy'.

Most herbs are probably benign but some of them do contain active ingredients (i.e. drugs). I think it's completely foolish to start making compounds out of these and ingesting them without a clue what they do or what their side effects may be.

Herbal remedies may have the potential to do good, but because unlike acupuncture or homeopathy they have far more potential to do harm (!)

I would suggest that people steer well clear of these quacks and their unproven, and unknown (even to them), treatments.

[Allo Allo]

There's no science behind this form of quackery.

They mix and match 4 or 5 different herbs without any real idea of what they're doing. They don't know what ingredients are in the herbs and they certainly don't know what potential compounds they end up with in their 'remedy'.

I would suggest that people steer well clear of these quacks and their unproven, and unknown (even to them), treatments.

Mmmm - Don't know about this post - think this is a bit emotive - like an "opinion". Herbalists undergo years of training and know about orthodox drugs too.... Quacks? I dunno. Check out

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1116847

which seems a more moderate view


M

[Admin]

Mmmm - Don't know about this post - think this is a bit emotive - like an "opinion". Herbalists undergo years of training and know about orthodox drugs too.... Quacks? I dunno. Check out

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1116847

which seems a more moderate view

Please give us your assessment of the article you have linked to. Then I'll give you mine.

You might just find you've shot yourself in the foot again!

[tkingdoll]

Opinions are fine if they're based on an assessment of facts. Nothin 'emotive' about that.

[Ginger Rogers]

In a woman's life, starting periods, pregnancy and childbirth and the menopause and perfectly normal physiology, so why seek a 'cure' for what is perfectly normal?

It is my feeling that lots of women see the menopause as an illness - IT IS NOT and is a perfectly normal part of a woman's life. It is just switching from one part of life to the next.

Lots of women sail through the menopause without taking anything.

If women want to use herbal alternatives, then they should go and see a qualified medical herbalist who knows what they are doing. They are also trained fully in differential diagnosis and know when to refer on to others I think the problems arise when OTC herbs are purchased and then taken in isolation. If you see a herbalist, they would never give you just one herb. They would normally give you a tincture containing about 4 ot 5 different tinctures that work synergistically.

That's a horribly archaic and chauvanistic thing to say! Men have absolutely no idea whatsoever what women go through - not all no, but some. If there's one thing I can't stand it's some arrogant old fashioned doctor that thinks women should stop complaining and 'get on with it' >:(
I agree with everything tkingdoll said basically.