Osteopaths on the loose...

[davidrodway]

Waves at our sometime resident hit and run friend of the homeopath!

I've a bit of sinus trouble at the moment, what neck muscles should I be massaging to cure myself?

I do treat patients who have sinusitis. If you really had this , I doubt you would describe it as " a bit of sinus trouble" - so I suggest you carry on using whatever you have found helpful so far. Among the techniques I use are percussion ( gentle rapid tapping, not a blast of sound on the bongo drums) over the sinuses. I also show patients how to do this at home.

David

[filippo lippi]

So, the neck rubbing wouldn't help my sinus pain. L+G we have a schism. Which is better? Neck rubbing or a tap on the nose? There's only one way to find out,

FIGHT!!!

[Matt]

Silly question - what does WOO stand for?

David

Nothing, it's a prejorative term used by James Randi for various inexplicable claims and those who make them. Sometimes woo woo. Think of the sound that a ghost makes.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=woo%20woo

[Mojo]

So, the neck rubbing wouldn't help my sinus pain. L+G we have a schism. Which is better? Neck rubbing or a tap on the nose? There's only one way to find out,

FIGHT!!!

And the winner is...

[Mojo]

Any criticisms of the General Osteopathic Council, please address to them. The Code of Practice, Fitness to Practice, was subject to a much detailed criticism by osteopaths when it came out a few years ago (with no effect).

The GOsC's code, and what it says about claims, are relevant to anyone legally calling themselves an osteopath in the UK.

[Matt]

And the winner is...

but

[Blue Wode]

EBM - please look up on the south wales osteopathic society website - search for EBM and Research

That search produces one result:
http://www.osteopathywales.com/index.php?searchword=EBM+research&ordering=newest& searchphrase=all&option=com_search

Clicking on the next page brings you to this:

Evidence is ranked according to the following classification in descending order of credibility:1. Strong evidence from at least one systematic review of multiple well-designed randomised controlled trials.2. Strong evidence from at least one properly designed randomised controlled trial of appropriate size.3. Evidence from well-designed trials such as non-randomised trials, cohort studies, timeseries or matched case-controlled studies.4. Evidence from well-designed non-experimental studies from more than one centre or research group.5 Opinions of respected authorities, based on clinical evidence, descriptive studies or reports of expert committees

-snip-

Osteopaths accept the need for EBM. One problem for osteopaths is there has not been the research on which to base many decisions. Research has now become a priority for the profession, with the setting up of National Council for Osteopathic Research, the establishment of the International Conference on Osteopathic Research, and the dissemination of research results, especially via the International Journal of Osteopathic Medicine.

http://www.osteopathywales.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140:e vidence-based-medicine&catid=15:osteopathy-articles-

So, at the moment, it looks like many osteopaths depend heavily on evidence level 4 or 5, does it not?

[JJM]

{snip} OTOH, there are some claims made on the COsC website which might have some bearing on whether the GOsC thinks the above claims are acceptable:

Many common problems suffered by babies and children can be treated effectively with osteopathy.

Problems often suffered by babies:

• crying and irritability, especially when lying down.
• feeding difficulties
• sickness, colic and wind
• sleep disturbances.

Problems often suffered by older childern:

• musculo-skeletal problems
• susceptibility to infections and a depleted immune system
• ear infection, sometimes with a loss of hearing and 'glue ear'
• sinus and dental problems, with a constantly blocked or runny nose
• behavioural problems and learning difficulties, including poor concentration, fidgeting, difficulty in sitting and hyperactivity.
• headache, other aches and pains.
• asthma and vulnerability to chest infections.

Osteopathy can also help children suffering from cerebral palsy or Down's Syndrome.

{snip}
http://www.osteopathywales.com/index.php?searchword=EBM+research&ordering=newest& searchphrase=all&option=com_search

Clicking on the next page brings you to this:

{snip} One problem for osteopaths is there has not been the research on which to base many decisions. {snip}

So, at the moment, it looks like many osteopaths depend heavily on evidence level 4 or 5, does it not?

Perusing the fanciful list of conditions provided by Mojo, and the quote provided by Blue Wode, it is obvious that osteopaths in the UK are as quacky as chiropractors in the UK and USA.

[davidrodway]

So, the neck rubbing wouldn't help my sinus pain. L+G we have a schism. Which is better? Neck rubbing or a tap on the nose? There's only one way to find out,

FIGHT!!!

L+G.Excuse my ignorance, cant place the abbreviation. Who suggested neck rubbing? And the maxiillary sinuses, for example, are not in the nose. Why are you asking me about your sinus pain? I assume you are having adequate professional care .

[davidrodway]

Nothing, it's a prejorative term used by James Randi for various inexplicable claims and those who make them. Sometimes woo woo. Think of the sound that a ghost makes.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=woo%20woo

And I was trying to think of so many clever acronyms. So who decides what is woo and what isnt? Ghosts dont exist, so they cant make noises.

[Dubious Dick]

And I was trying to think of so many clever acronyms. So who decides what is woo and what isnt? Ghosts dont exist, so they cant make noises.

Woo is non credible evidence based. Lack of credible evidence is evident, evidently.

Allow us skeptics a little light humour as regards using 'ghost' noises, please.

Some skeptics do not like the use of the expression but it can be helpful shorthand sometimes.

[davidrodway]

The GOsC's code, and what it says about claims, are relevant to anyone legally calling themselves an osteopath in the UK.

But if you really want an official explanation of what is in the GOsC code and why, please ask them. It just got dumped on us and many osteopaths were not too pleased about it. I am not going to be an apologist for a document with which I had many misgivings.

Any specific points on which you want my personal opinion?

[filippo lippi]

L+G.Excuse my ignorance, cant place the abbreviation. Who suggested neck rubbing? And the maxiillary sinuses, for example, are not in the nose. Why are you asking me about your sinus pain? I assume you are having adequate professional care .

NMT (who seems to have fled) defended neck massage (don't say "manipulation" it make him mad) as a cure for sinus pain.

[davidrodway]

NMT (who seems to have fled) defended neck massage (don't say "manipulation" it make him mad) as a cure for sinus pain.

Haven't caught up yet with replies to posts that i assume are meant for me, so not able yet to go back and comment on others. Please see SWOS website for "manipulation".

[davidrodway]

Woo is non credible evidence based. Lack of credible evidence is evident, evidently.

Allow us skeptics a little light humour as regards using 'ghost' noises, please.

Some skeptics do not like the use of the expression but it can be helpful shorthand sometimes.

Lack of credible evidence is not at all always evident.

There is a danger surely of someone sticking a woo or non woo label on a practice and then it either gets backed or attacked by everyone else. Sloppy thinking is such an easy option, and having someone you usually agree with categorize something for you so you know whether to support or attack it is hardly good skepticism.

Lets se the list of woo and non woo and why, if there is one