Road ghost sightings

[Dr B]

Just to clarify, I AM suggesting a single cause, given the consistency of the reports.

but you are ignoring the differences. 'She' has been seen in the road, by the side of the road, in distess, crossing the road etc, and at different locations within a certain stretch of road.

Also, there are witness factors that might have to be present too. For instance, a belief in ghosts, a tendency to look around a lot while driving (so that many objects are only seen for a fraction of a second) and perhaps day dreaming.

No - none. In fact quite often the witnesses have passed this stetch of roads thousands of times before the experience happened.

I have found that misperception occurs mostly when either an object is difficult to see (dark, distant, etc) or is only seen very briefly. Interestingly, these factors are frequently present in ghost reports.

Actually science shows this as a fact of ambiguity perception and it is something i have written about for ASSAP years ago (your memory letting you down again???). Dont forget - some people report running into her suggesting a maximum distance of about 6 - 10ft approx

[Dr B]

Has the sighting ever been made by two people in the car together or only by single drivers?

I think i do discuss this above and earlier in the thread - but yes two witnesses at once has occurred.

The brain has so much to concentrate when driving, especially at dusk and at night. So would you think this would contribute to the increased 'mis-perception'?

Yes - its likely to be a contributing factor - but others must be interacting with this which force the experiences to cluster into a certain region.

The view from the passenger seat is so different! When driving I know where exactly on the road I am, in the passenger seat I often feel too close to the left. (Or maybe my 'drivers' are driving too close to the side).

passengers have seen it - including some on a bus!

Were any of the cars left hand drive? Any really low driving position (Mazda 323 for example) or really high (Range Rover). Did they pass any other cars going the other way shortly after - could an oncoming car's headlights acted as a light source?

No left-drives and no pattern in terms of vehicle. The only real pattern is that it is always at dusk or night (in the headlights)

Would visual acuity have any baring - even corrected with glasses/contact lenses?

No - age range to vast and multiple witnesses in more tha one instance.

[Dr B]

@ DrB

How are things going with this?
I'm interested to know of any developments.

still going along slowly....

[ZERO]

Define detail? Some consistent details have been reported - not sure i would describe it as 'fairly detailed' myself - but some noteworthy aspects.

On a scale of one to ten, with one being a vaguely human shaped wisp and ten being a real person, where does this "road ghost" sit?

no plans at present - but maybe one of the future. Alternatively - go check it out for yourself - there is no substitute for active investigating

A bit difficult, I'm on the other side of the world.

still going along slowly....

Thanks for the update.

[Dr B]

On a scale of one to ten, with one being a vaguely human shaped wisp and ten being a real person, where does this "road ghost" sit?

Difficult to say when you take the variability into account - but more than half way would be fair

[ZERO]

Difficult to say when you take the variability into account - but more than half way would be fair

I think that is fairly detailed. I would have expected something in the first three.

A genuine mystery eh?

[Dr B]

A genuine mystery eh?

Indeed. There are aspects of the case that require a more satisfactory level of explanation. I do think much of what is discussed above (and much of what I have been thinking about over recent years) is relevant and such factors are playing a role. However, at present we are only in the 'ball park' region of explicit detail. We need to refine the ideas a great deal.

To do this effectively we need to run some studies and experiments over the coming months / years and we have started to do this.

Rather than just throw out random skeptical quotes like misperception etc (which are certainly true at the general level) we now need to explore how such factors are directly implicated in this case and lead to the specific perceptions they do (as opposed to any other random alternative).

[chaggle]

Alternatively - go check it out for yourself - there is no substitute for active investigating

Have you actually said exactly where it is?

[Mulder]

but you are ignoring the differences. 'She' has been seen in the road, by the side of the road, in distess, crossing the road etc, and at different locations within a certain stretch of road.

They all saw a 'figure' - that is the key consistency. Differences could be down to lighting / time of day, precise direction of travel, suggestion, confabulation, etc.

Obviously you should investigate the phenomenon, DrB, but there are many possible factors to consider. I guess the best approach, which I'm sure you're already doing, is to try to reconstruct the phenomenon on site while varying parameters one at a time.

[Matt]

They all saw a 'figure' - that is the key consistency. Differences could be down to lighting / time of day, precise direction of travel, suggestion, confabulation, etc.

Obviously you should investigate the phenomenon, DrB, but there are many possible factors to consider. I guess the best approach, which I'm sure you're already doing, is to try to reconstruct the phenomenon on site while varying parameters one at a time.

All female too.

[Dr B]

Have you actually said exactly where it is?

If you follow my research on the matter it's obvious - if not, just ask.

[Dr B]

They all saw a 'figure' - that is the key

I think this is the danger - the extent to which one concentrates on a single theme at the cost of not considering a number of the more consistent themes.

A figure yes - but it's location, interpreted state, realism, visual detail, etc all vary to some degree. All i am saying is you need a theory for the variability as well as the constants. It is not clear exactly how all the factors i am looking at account for the variability. Simply listing the possible variables, while important, is not to be confused with listing the probabilities or understanding how these factors impact in the way they do in this specific case.

Differences could be down to lighting

possible - but all sightings in similar degraded night-time conditions.

time of day

possible - but not sure how a sighting at 9pm should be different say to one at midnight - when both are during the night (remember winter / autumn nights when it gets dark at 4:00pm)

precise direction of travel,

Similar sightings in both directions

suggestion, confabulation, etc.

I agree in general - but my point is these are general ideas that need to be mapped onto specific experiences. The experiences are too rare for these to be major factors (though clearly they can be involved)

I guess the best approach, which I'm sure you're already doing, is to try to reconstruct the phenomenon on site while varying parameters one at a time.

we are using a number of approaches but this one you describe might be difficult if not impossible to do in the wild.....

[Dr B]

All female too.

??? really?

[Mulder]

I think this is the danger - the extent to which one concentrates on a single theme at the cost of not considering a number of the more consistent themes.

A figure yes - but it's location, interpreted state, realism, visual detail, etc all vary to some degree. All i am saying is you need a theory for the variability as well as the constants. It is not clear exactly how all the factors i am looking at account for the variability. Simply listing the possible variables, while important, is not to be confused with listing the probabilities or understanding how these factors impact in the way they do in this specific case.

I have sat in ghost vigils and seen lights cast on the wall, clearly from the headlights of passing cars (which could also be heard). These lights have later been described, by other witnesses from the same room, as containing all sorts of 'detail', fitting in with a 'ghost theory', that were definitely not present.

I think you could be chasing shadows if you try to explain every 'detail' of every sighting, most of which probably result from suggestion and confabulation. Once people are convinced they've seen a ghost, they will add details as people ask them questions about their experience (I'm talking about friends and relatives not careful researchers!). I've noticed a strong tendency for some witnesses to deny details that might suggest a normal explanation, even though they mention 'new' information or things they could not possibly have seen (ie. confabulation) in order to maintain the 'paranormalness' of their sighting.

Similar sightings in both directions

By 'precise', I didn't just mean direction. There is also whether on the inside, middle or outer edge of the carriageway or cutting across bends etc. The precise angle may be important, depending on how the phenomenon is produced. Speed might be crucial too!

I agree in general - but my point is these are general ideas that need to be mapped onto specific experiences. The experiences are too rare for these to be major factors (though clearly they can be involved)

See above for confabulation. Suggestion could also include the apparent spookiness of the road.

we are using a number of approaches but this one you describe might be difficult if not impossible to do in the wild.

I don't see why. It only involves driving up and down a not very busy stretch of road at night. What's the worse that can happen - arrest for suspicious behaviour?

[Matt]

??? really?

Huh?

They have always happened at night (in the headlights) - with one exception which was at dusk (nearly dark but still in headlights). Descriptions are similar in that motorists describe either colliding with a girl, narrowly missing her, or seeing a distressed girl on the side of the road - some have gone to help her to find she is not there. So its always female.