Detect the ADE 651 Detection Equipment

[techowiz]

New report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8477601.stm

I wonder how many of the protesting officials were actually on the take, and are just trying to save their skins.

Absolutely correct. The protest of Iraqi senior officers needs to be looked at in perspective. They are fighting to keep the money they have taken from purchasing the scam device in bribes. Iraq still has the death sentence so those same officers are also fighting for their lives.

Sounds like another person who should be happy to prove their 100% confidence in the middle of a mess of booby-traps.

I would also like to thank Meirion for taking the time out to tell us how the story broke.

I would ask all members not to be concerned with who has or has not had praise for how the story came about. All I care about is the result, and the result that the Scammer-in-Chief McCormick has been arrested is one for all of us to be proud about. The fact he has again run away, this time aftre exposure on Newsnight in itself speaks volumes, remember how he ran off after The New York Times exposure?
Anyway I'm sure he wont be servicing his blog anytime soon, so I will miss he not so nice comments about me.
As DD says, the war is not yet won, we have only won the first battle, we will now concentrate our efforts to attack the second fraudster, Gary Bolton of Global Technical Ltd. and his useless GT200 that has caused loss of life in Thialand.
regards

[NewsnightMeirion]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

My reading is that the issue only became worth pursuing when it was evident that there was a potential for legal action. This is depressing! Given that there was clear evidence that the devices didn't work, were being sold to the gullible and were being used in the field - yet this was not enough of a scandal.

I assume it follows that unless British lives are proven to be at risk from the GT200, Alpha 6 & Sniffex then no legal proceedings are possible, hence there is insufficient to justify Newsnight making a program on them?

If I am being too pessimistic, then given that DD, Techno & Lumpy are obviously very committed perhaps clarity on the evidence that would work for you might provide a way forward.

[QUOTE=Pebble;82482]Thanks for taking the time to respond.


The reason people like me don’t write on blogs like this is because you get dragged into a load of nonsense. However sensible most of the contributors are you always get someone who is badly informed who wants to turn it into a fight about nothing rather than concentrating on the issues. If you don’t respond to what they say it looks like you’re accepting it is true and if you do respond you get sucked into a pointless discussion which I don’t have time for if I’m going to keep doing my job of exposing things which are wrong whether its Trafigura dumping toxic waste in Ivory Coast or the ADE651 or whatever. I guess I thought the UK-Skeptics site would be different but I was wrong.

I thought it would be a good idea to explain what we did. I’m sorry I posted anything and I won’t do it again. With huge respect to Techowiz and DD and the person you call Lumpy but who I only know from the Sniffex blog who’ve all done amazing work and who I have huge respect for I’m going to answer Pebble and then quit this blog. I wish you good luck with whatever you go for but I won’t be watching any more.

Pebble – I’m not sure how much original research you’ve contributed to this subject – probably loads - but you have chosen to misread what I had written then make totally unfounded assumptions based on your misreading of what I had written and finally jump to an illogical conclusion. Are you sure you shouldn’t quit the UK-Skeptics blog and instead join a “Believe in 100 Impossible Things Before Breakfast:” blog instead?. With your attitude to facts I think you could have a great future working in sales – for Jim McCormick.

You say “My reading is that the issue only became worth pursuing when it was evident that there was a potential for legal action”. How on earth did you get that from reading what I had written?

After the December blasts and McCormick’s appearance in Baghdad to still maintain that his absurd devices worked we went flat out to prove him wrong and get something done. The film was on from that moment. We went flat out to obtain the ADE651 “programmed substance detection cards” we set up the lab tests we got access to a GT200. As I said we went to ATSC on January 5th and filmed the stand up by Caroline which appears in the film – the following day McCormick was arrested. We interviewed Prof Bruce Hood and set up to film with Sidney Alford. Two thirds of the film was already in the can before we approached the Government. The Government suggested to us that something might be done but a long time in the future so we applied as much pressure as we could.

Yet your version of this is “My reading is that the issue only became worth pursuing when it was evident that there was a potential for legal action” if you’re honest you’ll admit that’s totally wrong. If you’re not honest there’s a job for you with Jim McCormick.

So based on that misreading and bogus assumption you then absurdly conclude
“I assume it follows that unless British lives are proven to be at risk from the GT200, Alpha 6 & Sniffex then no legal proceedings are possible, hence there is insufficient to justify Newsnight making a program on them?” What on earth is the logical basis for that conclusion?” Do you think our determination to get this off the streets of Baghdad is based on concern for British lives? There are hardly any Brits left in Baghdad any more – this is about concern for primarily Iraqi lives.

Anyhow bye bye UK-Skeptics my mistake to think I could usefully engage with you.

Good night and good luck (not that I believe in luck) and definitely good bye.

Meirion

[Admin]

Well that was a long and fruitful association!

I think Pebble makes a very good point though.

If Newsnight has managed so successfully to deal with the ADE651 device and also has evidence that other such devices are being used (they have different names but all 'work' to the same basic formula) then why not report on the use of those other devices also?

[tolman]

It's certainly sad that Meirion chose to leave so quickly.
Though I can understand someone being upset at cynicism when they've done some good work, I think much of the cynicism was fuelled by the lack of willingness of government to do much unless UK lives were obviously under threat.
Also, if someone decides to judge an entire forum based seemingly on the least sympathetic response, and then leave for good, I'd wonder how many forums they might ever stay in for long.

As for newsnight not [yet] having covered other devices, I'd guess that at the very least, they'd want to get their hands on them, and have a professional opinion before saying they're all just as bogus as the ADE651, if only to cover their backs.

Even if something fairly obviously doesn't work unless the laws of physics are wrong, it's a bit different for a high profile media outlet to say so than for some random individual here.

You'd think that after one decent piece, some people in authority should pick it up and run with it, and go after all the similar scammers.

Maybe they also have to be a bit more circumspect when criminal charges are a possibility. Someone coming and reading stuff here probably knows roughly what to expect. The BBC might have to be more cautious - even coverage of similar devices might have to be done carefully if/when charges are brought against McCormick.

[Dubious Dick]

Sorry that a row has broken out over this. Bit of a shame, and do think that the Meirion has overreacted to what Pebbles comments.

Want to reiterate that as with Techo don't really care for getting any credit for this. Hopefully have made it clear that I picked up from JREF in first place.

However, there is some interesting background to this story getting picked up. I know that the story was pitched within the beeb some time before Newsnight picked up on it. Am checking to see if it was pitched to Newsnight, but am fairly certain that it was to Panorama, and also to C4 news. We also tried to get Ben Goldacre to go with it earlier in 2009, as well as a number of others.

Seems to me it properly broke when Rod Norland did his piece in the NYT back in November, and once that had happened I knew it wouldn't go away. So, whatever the background to the Newsnight story I am just delighted they did it, and hope they do indeed follow up the other scammers and keep pressure on Government.

Onward.

[Pebble]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

If I am being too pessimistic, then given that DD, Techno & Lumpy are obviously very committed perhaps clarity on the evidence that would work for you might provide a way forward.

So based on that misreading and bogus assumption you then absurdly conclude
“I assume it follows that unless British lives are proven to be at risk from the GT200, Alpha 6 & Sniffex then no legal proceedings are possible, hence there is insufficient to justify Newsnight making a program on them?” What on earth is the logical basis for that conclusion?” Do you think our determination to get this off the streets of Baghdad is based on concern for British lives? There are hardly any Brits left in Baghdad any more – this is about concern for primarily Iraqi lives.

Anyhow bye bye UK-Skeptics my mistake to think I could usefully engage with you.

Good night and good luck (not that I believe in luck) and definitely good bye.

Meirion

I evidently have a rather irritating way of asking a question!

I was simply making a deduction from this comment:

We set out to do that because we thought that might force the UK government to act quickly (whether for fear of embarrassment or because they needed some hard evidence or whatever others can speculate).

and adding the observation from the program that only where British subjects were at risk 'could' the government intervene.

Aplologies to Meirion, as you think that this was unwarrented! Does that mean we can expect more on the 'me too' devices, I wonder!

[Pebble]

One other point for Meirion, in case you are still reading this thread, I know very little about these devices, other that that which I have read here - but if you want any info on clinical trials with homeopathy etc - I certainly can provide expert input there.

My question was actually innocent, I was simply trying to pragmatically determine, what the pivotal determinants for action were - given that one Newsnight program appeared to achieve what years of effort by others had not.

[techowiz]

In light of very happy recent events I have changed my avatar.
regards

[Admin]

Update from Meirion: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/8481774.stm

[Pebble]

Update from Meirion: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/8481774.stm

Excellent, but highlights the problem - even when told the stuff is useless, those who have reasons for defending their continued use simply lie to the locals. We need to change the law to prevent anyone selling fradulent life endangering crap anywhere in the world - not just where UK citizens might be endangered.

[polomint38]

Excellent, but highlights the problem - even when told the stuff is useless, those who have reasons for defending their continued use simply lie to the locals. We need to change the law to prevent anyone selling fradulent life endangering crap anywhere in the world - not just where UK citizens might be endangered.

Even if we tighten up our laws in UK, they will just market it from somewhere else.

[brianp]

Even if we tighten up our laws in UK, they will just market it from somewhere else.

I wonder if the purveyors of "homeopathic remedies" are beginning to get just a little bit nervous over this ADE 651 hoo-hah. After all, if the government does tighten up the laws on selling goods which are actually useless - like empty plastic boxes purporting to be bomb detectors - it might well be a threat to those who sell bottles of distilled water purporting to be medical remedies.

[techowiz]

The noose is tightening around the scammers. Let's keep up the pressure.
regards

[Dubious Dick]

We also need a bit of attention on ComsTrac (www.comstrac.com) who do the Alpha 6.

Can someone please make a record of their current website showing this clone product under the heading Alpha Detection, in case they decide to delete this.

I am sorry but just cannot devote the time I would like to this any more, so anyone who wants to pass on the details to Newsnight please do.

Thanks and best to all, DD

[Matt]

Their PDF is attached here. The Webpage in question I've archived but the forum software doesn't seem to allow an upload of the zipfile.

It is nonetheless archived here http://web.archive.org/web/200802120...com/Alpha6.htm