Why?

[Aardvark]

I completely agree of course. However, do you think that it's possible that 'herbal' or other such rememdies can work in some folk and not others? - regardless of the placebo effect?
To me something either works or it doesn't but even antidpressesants it's known can not work in some people. I took fluoxetine for a couple of months and it had no effect. Seroxat on the other hand did work but helped me get fat and lazy lol. However I was much worse when I came off of it.

I did go to an English 'chinese medicine' guy and he wasn't great. But I did take Sib. Ginseng and I have to say I really did feel less tired when taking it, and I didn't expect it to work....

The various members of the SSRI and SNRI family have differeing levels of sedation or activation in addition to their anti-depressant effects. Indeed they also have differing side effect profiles, as this is to do with how specific they are for each type of 5HT receptor and where it is found in the brain. Some cause sicknes or Nand V, this is a result of some action on the 5HT3 receptors found in the vomiting centre.

Depression should be treated for 6 months after sympotoms have resolved, clinicians suggest that relaspe may occure more frequently if treatement is terminated sooner.

For fatigue you could try gentle excercise or joining a yoga or dance class. Taking up a new hobby or changing your diet may help. I get less fatigue when I cut out sugar carbs from my diet. There is a sound physiological basis for this. They key thing is that you need to lift your mood. Join a new social group.
Mood does influnce healing and mood also has an influnce on certain aspects of the immune system. Drepression is associated with changes in stress handling that can be picked up by a dexamethazone suppression test.

There is sound evidence dietary supplementation of EFAs in children. I found that I handled fatigue better after 6 months of 1g daily omega 3 fish oil, however this could have been a placebo responce, but as I am also male and approaching middle age I would benefit from the reduced CV risk that this level of supplementation delivers.

The biggest issue with herbal remedies is as John poited out that we can not rely on the consistency of either active drug or rate of adsorption or indeed of side effects from the many other lesser active chemicals contained within.

Pharmacuticals take these active ingredients and create a stable reliable compound that works within defined parameters for 'most' people. Pharmacuticals are consistent in activity and side effects as far as we can make them

[Ginger Rogers]

Thanks that's interesting!

I did try yoga for several months but it was expensive and I found I wasn't benefitting plus it made my hyperacidity worse..
it's strange because everyone said take up yoga it'll make you feel better but I didn't, I had high expectations and I was disappointed.

incidentally I was on AD's for nearly 2 years..

I am fairly busy, I am doing an evening college course, which I find the work hard to keep up with.. I am learning Guitar and I work 6 days a week and i have family stresses. Maybe it's why my 'depression' has turned to anxiety.

I was thinking bout trying something else but i've forgotten what it's called! it's kinesio something therapy... but I need to find out much more about it before parting with the reddies.
it claims to help* combat stress, depression, anxiety, allergies, ibs... Clearly I'm not convninced but she was recommended to me by somebody..

[tkingdoll]

Applied kinesiology? That's as woo as they come.

It's a pseudoscience, pure and simple. Avoid! You will be wasting your money. It does not work better than placebo under controlled testing conditions. Therefore, it is placebo.

Some useful links here: http://skepdic.com/news/newsletter58.html#3

and here: http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...ideomotor.html

[Ginger Rogers]

blimey, thanks for that, glad i asked :o Might try hypnotherapy at least we know that can work!

[Admin]

Might try hypnotherapy at least we know that can work!

D'ya wanna bet?

[Ginger Rogers]

Might try hypnotherapy at least we know that can work!

D'ya wanna bet?

i did say CAN :D

[Admin]

Weasel words.

I make good use of them too.

[Ginger Rogers]

actually I found out it's 'creative kinesiology and sound therapy'

:o

[Admin]

That sounds even worse.

Seriously though, I can understand people who have has little success with conventional therapies wanting to try out anything that might have some perceived chance of working.

What I don't like to see is people spending, often a lot of, money chasing some miraculous cure that just isn't there. :(

Be careful Kristie. :)

[Ginger Rogers]

yes quite, thanks for the friendly warning, I don't buy it either so I'm not going to part with my reddies for something so.... pointless?

[seren]

This isn't an argument of any kind, more a musing on the subject, but isn't it just as bad to instil in the populace a faith in an approach to healthcare that's sanctioned by science, but which not only sometimes fails utterly, but also fails to help patients pick up the pieces after the "incurable" diagnosis? Which is certainly what happened to me- I left the consultant's office in physical pain from the examination, feeling personally violated because of the nature of the examination, and utterly despondent and depressed from the "incurable" verdict.

I didn't seek any alternative therapies, but actually since its now a "pain management" issue, this might be where they come into their own. I don't think I'd ever consider applied kinesiology though!

[Admin]

This isn't an argument of any kind, more a musing on the subject, but  isn't it just as bad to instil in the populace a faith in an approach to healthcare that's sanctioned by science, but which not only sometimes fails utterly, but also fails to help patients pick up the pieces after the "incurable" diagnosis?

Scientific medicine isn't perfect, but by and large, it can back up its claims. Alternative medicine promises much but generally can't back up its claims.

We shouldn't forget either that any failing of scientific medicine does not add any weight to the claims of alternative medicine.

I know what you're saying though - we shouldn't view scientific medicine as a perfect solution. We should be just as skeptical of conventional medicine as of alternatives.

[Ginger Rogers]

Do you think that practitioners of alternative therapies know that what theyre doing is a load of Bollox and are deliberately ripping people off (obviously some are yes) or do you think the majority truely believe what they're practising can help people?

What are peoples thoughts on reflexology? is that a load of cobblers as well?

[Nettles]

He is trained to know the actions of all the herbs that he prescribes and he also knows all the drug interactions as well.

Pactitioners who are trained in this way are safe practitioners who know when to treat and when to refer. He is also a member of the National Institute of Medical Herbalists.

You posted on 4 July when many herbalists were recommending that menopausal women should use Black Cohosh as a source of phytoestrogens in spite of the fact that its safety and effectiveness had not been assessed beyond six months' use, and in spite of evidence that Black Cohosh might damage the liver.. Since then Black Cohosh has turned out to cause serious liver damage. Women who had taken medically-prescribed 17 beta oestradiol derived from herbal sources would not have been endangered this way.

If herbalists say they know "the actions of the herbs" but don't know about the "rots your liver" action then I'm not impressed.

(sorry Nettles, your URL's were a bit wonky - vbloke)

[Nettles]

Scientific medicine isn't perfect, but by and large, it can back up its claims.

Two things about scientific medicine make it uniquely safe and effective:

• If it can be proven to work, and its safety accords with the benefits to be derived, then it's incorporated into scientific medicine; and

• Scientific medicine tests and rejects things that don't work or which are so unsafe as to outweigh their benefits.

Often, naturopathic medicine doesn't incorporate things which are philosophically incompatible but which are proven effective; and only very rarely does naturopathic medicine test and reject things that don't prove effective or which prove unsafe.