Creationists launch new attacks on evolution

[Tony Williams]

I've posted a long article on my blog about the creationists' latest lines of attack in trying to get their fantasy taught as a legitimate theory in US schools: "academic freedom" and the "mind/brain" distinction. See: http://sciencefictionfantasy.blogspot.com/

[newatheist]

i have read your whole blog and i agree. but this is nothing new, they have been at it for many years now. i highly doubt they have any hope of success, i think there are many people who are more than willing to fight this nonsense so i will just laugh at the idiocy of the american fundies.

[Mulder]

I don't know why believers (religious, pyschic, etc) keep going on about consciousness as though it is somehow special. Latest neuroscience reveals that most of the things we do happen in our unconscious. When we 'decide' to move our arm, there is already instruction on its way to the muscles before we've consciously decided to move it.

Consciousness, it turns out, is a relatively small part of what the brain does, even though it is the bit we are most aware of, and is responsible only for executive planning, eg what you're going to do next week. I guess an analogy would be viewing a computer screen. That is where you see all the exciting stuff that the computer does. However the vast majority of the work takes place in the software and hardware that you can't see.

If consciousness is a 'soul' or 'spirit' then it is not surprising that there is no evidence that it can exist outside the body. Such a 'consciousness' would be completely useless and devoid of form or function without a supporting brain (like a computer screen turned off).

[Trinoc]

If consciousness is such a big deal then surely the idea that the universe was created by a conscious god is a more complex hypothesis than the idea that it evolved on its own.

Creationism only made sense as long as consciousness was regarded as a "given", requiring no further explanation. If I understand correctly, Occam's Razor was originally employed to argue that God existed because that was a simpler explanation than postulating lots of different natural processes ... but Occam was assuming that God's consciousness required no further explanation, which is where he, and the creationists, got it wrong.

[Dubious Dick]

If consciousness is such a big deal then surely the idea that the universe was created by a conscious god is a more complex hypothesis than the idea that it evolved on its own.

Creationism only made sense as long as consciousness was regarded as a "given", requiring no further explanation. If I understand correctly, Occam's Razor was originally employed to argue that God existed because that was a simpler explanation than postulating lots of different natural processes ... but Occam was assuming that God's consciousness required no further explanation, which is where he, and the creationists, got it wrong.

How very well put! A neat and incisive thrust at the weakness of the 'God' illusion. Congrats. I shall use that one given half a chance, if copyright not an issue!

[Trinoc]

How very well put! A neat and incisive thrust at the weakness of the 'God' illusion. Congrats. I shall use that one given half a chance, if copyright not an issue!

Consider it Creative Commons ... since I'm common as muck and I make everything up!

[Tony Williams]

i have read your whole blog and i agree. but this is nothing new, they have been at it for many years now. i highly doubt they have any hope of success, i think there are many people who are more than willing to fight this nonsense so i will just laugh at the idiocy of the american fundies.

Unfortunately, they appear to be making some progress in getting their ideas discussed as legitimate alternatives to science in US schools. They are of course being vigorously opposed, but they are very persistent and won't give up. After all, they know that they have God on their side.

[Trinoc]

Unfortunately, they appear to be making some progress in getting their ideas discussed as legitimate alternatives to science in US schools. They are of course being vigorously opposed, but they are very persistent and won't give up. After all, they know that they have God on their side.

More to the point, they know they have as much money as they want from a load of gullible people on their side.

[Tony Williams]

More to the point, they know they have as much money as they want from a load of gullible people on their side.

Sadly true. They use that, among other things, to produce lots of glossy teaching materials which they distribute free to schools - including in the UK.

[JJM]

I've posted a long article on my blog about the creationists' latest lines of attack in trying to get their fantasy taught as a legitimate theory in US schools: "academic freedom" and the "mind/brain" distinction. See: http://sciencefictionfantasy.blogspot.com/

Your blog post is very good. I like the fact that you quoted the Judge, noting how the school board members lied about what they had done. About a century ago, a US Supreme Court Justice wrote that lying under oath is the biggest barrier to justice. They caught those guys in three, huge lies. At one point, the judge exercised his prerogative to question the witness; he asked the guy if he knew he was under oath.

I would love to know what those characters are going to do next. At the time of the Dover trial, it was suggested that another name-change would come up. They had simply substituted ID for Creation in their texts and arguments.

There is a good blog here http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/ Search for Cincinnati to see several posts on a recent event. Recently, the Cincinnati (Ohio, USA) Zoo formed an alliance with a nearby Creation Museum. The author of the blog initiated an e-mail campaign that put an end to the zoo-museum partnership. This was a case of the Creationists trying to get a veneer of legitimacy by association with a real, academic group.

[Mongrel]

IF you ever get the chance the Nova documentary "Judgment Day - Intelligent Design on Trial" is well worth a watch. If you can play Region 1 DVDs it's available on Amazon.com :)

[lost thought]

Sadly true. They use that, among other things, to produce lots of glossy teaching materials which they distribute free to schools - including in the UK.

Yes,
my daughter said they were not much good as the glossy surface made the shit slid off before you could finish wiping her arse with them.

Sorry I will be good..

Lost Thought

[Trinoc]

IF you ever get the chance the Nova documentary "Judgment Day - Intelligent Design on Trial" is well worth a watch. If you can play Region 1 DVDs it's available on Amazon.com :)

And of course it's available from Long John Silver's emporium ...

(Nudge nudge, say no more!)

[polomint38]

And of course it's available from Long John Silver's emporium ...

(Nudge nudge, say no more!)

I got a copy from Mr Silver, his delivery time was quite good as well.
I have yet to watch though

[Mongrel]

Shame on you


PBS, the station that financed it, is a not for profit organisation. It funds some of the best documentaries and science programs in the US. Torrenting their programs is a bad thing