GM in europe

[Tomolac]

I still don't understand why people see a difference between making changes over many years and making the exact same changes quickly?

and why aren't people worried about the

potential impacts on biodiversity

by tomatoes, bananas or cucumbers?

[Trinoc]

by tomatoes, bananas or cucumbers?

Tomatoes, bananas and cucumbers with built-in insecticide? Quite apart from the fact I would prefer not to ingest BT toxin myself, has anyone noticed the current panic about the way most of the bees are dying off? It's unlikely this particular extinction is caused by GM (simply because it's also happening in countries without significant GM crops), but it illustrates just the sort of shit we would be in if we caused a significant reduction in the insect population.

[Tony Williams]

I still don't understand why people see a difference between making changes over many years and making the exact same changes quickly?

Because they are not making the "exact same changes". Selective breeding results in a narrow range of variation, one small step at a time. The whole process is transparent. Gene manipulation can involve massive change instantly, in all sorts of entirely unnatural directions. This could also have "unforeseen consequences", as Trinoc is pointing out.

[Trinoc]

GM could produce some amazing advances. Probably the biggest single increase in world food production could be achieved by giving grains the genes to support leguminous root nodules to fix nitrogen ... but what agribusiness is going to develop a product that pulls the rug out from under the fertilizer market? Even if they did they would make sure the users could only use the crop if they bought new seed every year. The only way this is ever likely to happen is if it's funded by a charity or something like the United Nations, and then given away free.

Crops that can grow with salty water irrigation would also make a hell of a difference, now that fresh water irrigation supplies are running out. But as long as this is only an enterprise to make vast profits for companies like Monsanto, nobody is going to care about feeding the poorest people in the world.

But what do we get instead? Crops that allow spraying with more of the manufacturer's own weedkiller (Roundup) and crops with built-in insecticide that kill helpful and unhelpful insects indiscriminately.

[chaggle]

!Appeal to Authority Alert!

http://www.badscience.net/2007/03/sc...toes/#more-378

Quote:

I can readily identify with the antipathy. I’m no friend of big biotech. I think GM has created a dangerous powershift in agriculture in the favour of multinational biotechnology corporations, and “terminator seeds”, which die at the end of the season, are a venal way to increase farmers’ dependency. Monsanto are clearly a nasty company (apart from anything else they made Agent Orange).

So I’m cautious about GM, and each crop needs to be assessed on a case by case basis, but they seem safe overall.

Unquote

These are the words of Ben Goldacre - he, for one, thinks that GM crops are sufficiently different from other crops to be "assessed on a case by case basis"

[newatheist]

!Appeal to Authority Alert!

http://www.badscience.net/2007/03/sc...toes/#more-378

Quote:

I can readily identify with the antipathy. I’m no friend of big biotech. I think GM has created a dangerous powershift in agriculture in the favour of multinational biotechnology corporations, and “terminator seeds”, which die at the end of the season, are a venal way to increase farmers’ dependency. Monsanto are clearly a nasty company (apart from anything else they made Agent Orange).

So I’m cautious about GM, and each crop needs to be assessed on a case by case basis, but they seem safe overall.

Unquote

These are the words of Ben Goldacre - he, for one, thinks that GM crops are sufficiently different from other crops to be "assessed on a case by case basis"

'the big corporations are always on the lookout to exploit' if their objections were based on this argument then parhaps i can understand their oposition but really all everyone is concerned with is the woo.
maybe europe is far too influenced by sci-fi films.???

[Tim the Mage]

bananas

Bad example for the debate about bees and stuff like that as bananas are propagated asexually and most cultivars have no seeds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana#Cultivation

[Croydon Bob]

I agree with Trinoc and Chaggle. It's not GM that I'm against, it's the way it is currently being used. I accept that opposition is mainly from raving loonies and we need to avoid giving the impression that nutters like Prince Charles are saying anything sensible. But weed-killer-resistant crops with terminator genes that cost third-world farmers extra and don't give them a sustainable future are not a good thing.

[Trinoc]

Bad example for the debate about bees and stuff like that as bananas are propagated asexually and most cultivars have no seeds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana#Cultivation

That doesn't stop bananas with built-in pesticides from killing insects, including those that perform beneficial tasks like pollinating other species.

[Mongrel]

That doesn't stop bananas with built-in pesticides from killing insects, including those that perform beneficial tasks like pollinating other species.

Could you give some examples of crops with "built in pesticides"?

[Trinoc]

Could you give some examples of crops with "built in pesticides"?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._thuringiensis