chiropractors

[Ginger Rogers]

Now I thought chiropractors were perfectly fine. I mean, I see one, and she puts back in place the bits that are wrong. So how is that 'woo' then?? ???
My chiropractor said that doctors think of them as 'woo' and when mentioning 'alternative treatments' my own doctor added chiropractor along with homeopathy, reflexology and all that!!!

Not sure how you can compare a chiropractor with a homeopath!

Or is it true that its' one of those unsubstantiated types of treatment that is not proven to do anything?? But, she does do something, she puts my bones back - surely I'd know if she wasn't doing anything?? !!

[Mongrel]

There's some good information at Chirobase for you to peruse.

Discounting the 'subluxations' and Anti-Vaccination stance that is prevalent (although a lot less so over here I believe), a Chiro is doing no more than physical manipulation, generally with a lot less training than Physios and costing more.

[Admin]

Now I thought chiropractors were perfectly fine. I mean, I see one, and she puts back in place the bits that are wrong. So how is that 'woo' then?? ???

The Woo is that your bones were never out of place to begin with (!)

Chiropractic "subluxations" don't exist.

See: UK-Skeptics on Chiropractic for an overview of the topic.

Or is it true that its' one of those unsubstantiated types of treatment that is not proven to do anything?? But, she does do something, she puts my bones back - surely I'd know if she wasn't doing anything?? !!

She may be manipulating your bones and even making them 'crack' but is there any valid medical reason for doing so? The answer is: no.

There are risks associated with spinal manipulation, especially of the neck, so is it worth taking the risk with a treatment that has no medical benefit?

It's only the Chiropractor who tells you your bones need realigning in the first place!!

Your choice, but I'd steer well clear.

[Admin]

We have also produced a factsheet: http://www.ukskeptics.com/factsheets/Chiropractic.pdf

Again, a topic overview but this one can be printed out and shared around.

[Sgt Badass]

A friend recently found he had a shattered vertebrae after he'd been seeing a chiro for some time. Now the NHS has got to patch him up.

They should be put against the same wall along with the homeopaths etc when the revolution comes...

[Ginger Rogers]

I'm really surprised.

I only go to the chiropractor (a McTimony chiropractor) when I'm sufferening back pain. For example, I could tell my neck was 'wrong' it felt like my head was twisted round 360º!!
So I go to my chiropractor and she does whatever it is they do and it corrects it.

I've just read your fact sheet.

She certainly doesn't un-recommend vaccinations or any such thing, and has never said that it can cure all ills, as far as I'm concerned I only go when I'm in pain or discomfort with my back, and my neck etc and for me it works

When I was younger I suffered very badly with a mis-aligned pelvis - I know it was mis-aligned because quite often when I bent over or lifted things my back would spasm and I would be in a lot of pain.
Since I started going to the chiropractor I don't have that any more - or I do but rarely and much less painfully.

[Allo Allo]

Hi Ginger,

You'll get no intelligible answer here about any complimentary therapies - fundamentalism rules!

McTimony is NOT accepted as Chiropractic. This technique is not used by the mainstream of the worldwide chiropractic profession. At the present time, McTimony Chiropractors are not eligible to join the British Chiropractic Association.

I have been to a McTimony Practitioner for agonisingly painful knees which the NHS Physiotherapist had worked on for months without any joy. Someone "recommended" McTimony and I was sorted in two session at the cost of £40. Of course the mob here would say that was "the placebo" - but it has lasted me very well - 8 years of placebo and still going strong! The other side effect was that my deaf right ear improved in its hearing ability. I "heard" it open up during my second session. But of course this is anecdotal nonsense - I was not part of a clinical trial, so have no corroborating evidence.

If I sound sour - I am! Not meant against you...just suggesting some here either won't reply because they haven't a clue - or because they are pseudoskeptics and simply regurgitate nonsense.

M

[Admin]

You'll get no intelligible answer here about any complimentary therapies - fundamentalism rules!

[.....]

If I sound sour - I am! Not meant against you...just suggesting some here either won't reply because they haven't a clue - or because they are pseudoskeptics and simply regurgitate nonsense.

Do I spot a familiar Woo tactic?

If you can't defend you inane beliefs then resort to attacking Skeptics with fallacious Ad Hominems.

And for the record Michelle, I don't believe your anecdote for one minute. It's another form of bullshit WooWoos come out with. "I was treated by doctors for years and nothing got better then one session with my quack and I was healed".

If it looks too good to be true.....

[Allo Allo]

John,

Could you point out what is INCORRECT about my statement that no intelligible answer will be given here about complimentary therapy when you yourself bore that out by explaining that MY EXPERIENCE is bullshit! HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? This is YOUR OPINION and NOT based on any logical or critical thought.

I do NO KIND of complementary therapy IN ANY FORM. I take NO HERBS, have NO MKB therapies. I have FEW woo ideas that most woos have. I would like you to list the inane beliefs I have. What are those beliefs? You ASSUME I have "beliefs" of which YOU don't approve.

I have spent two months studying mainstream scientific ideas - there are very few with which I have any issue. I have discovered many ideas that have personally been inspiring - if you thought my post on the Science Section was ironic - it wasn't - it was genuine. However, in my two months self education I have discovered that there is a GREAT difference between "scientific thought" and "scientific fundamentalism" - "radical science".

As for my knees - what arrogance! How the hell can you KNOW? Are you psychic? Or does this comment come from a balanced, thoughtful space?

I have ever only gone to a McTimony Therapist once - and I shared my experience - which was positive. And the fact that it is not considered "chiropractic".

I do have issue with the unthinking blah that can be "predicted" to be posted here that is an example of "herd mentality". That is NOT skepiticism - it's something else..

M >:(

[Admin]

Michelle,

I know who you really are and I've read your musings on various ideas.

I would like you to list the inane beliefs I have. What are those beliefs? You ASSUME I have "beliefs" of which YOU don't approve.

I'll publish your articles if you like.

Now, you may be challenging your ideas and looking at things in a more logical way but if you think you're going to achieve anything by insulting people who know a damn site more than you do on various topics then you're wrong.

I do have issue with the unthinking blah that can be "predicted" to be posted here that is an example of "herd mentality". That is NOT skepiticism - it's something else.

Bullshit.

You barely understand science or skepticism at all. You're just sounding like the multitude of Woos who so desperately need to attack skeptics because they can't justify their ideas and beliefs.

If you don't like our conclusions (which are arrived at independently ) then why not counter them with a well-considered logical argument?

We've heard the "closed-minded skeptic" crap before - let's have a quality counter-argument if you think we're so badly wrong.

[Mojo]

I do have issue with the unthinking blah...

Well stop posting it then.

[Admin]

To get back on topic...

I've just read your fact sheet.

She certainly doesn't un-recommend vaccinations or any such thing, and has never said that it can cure all ills, as far as I'm concerned I only go when I'm in pain or discomfort with my back, and my neck etc and for me it works

I would say that not every Chiropractor embraces every type of nonsense they're into but I think that if pushed, you might just find that your Chiropractor is a little more wacky than you may realise. ???

After all, they believe (and McTimoney adheres very much to Palmer's original ideas) that all (or at least 95% of) disease and illness is caused by malfunctioning of the nervous system because of misaligned vertebrae.

For back pain, especially the lower back, they are probably as effective as any other physical therapist but we have to remember, the general public may think of them as 'back doctors' but that's not how they see themselves (!)

As with all alternative practitioners, if we're to use them, we have to keep what they can actually do in perspective.

Personally, I wouldn't use a Chiropractor for anything.

[Blue Wode]

McTimony is NOT accepted as Chiropractic. This technique is not used by the mainstream of the worldwide chiropractic profession. At the present time, McTimony Chiropractors are not eligible to join the British Chiropractic Association.

Practising McTimoney chiropractors must, by law, be registered with the UK regulatory body, the General Chiropractic Council. Therefore, McTimoney IS accepted as chiropractic in the UK. However, you do appear to be correct in saying that its techniques are not used by the mainstream of the worldwide chiropractic profession.

Regards Mctimoney chiropractors not being eligible to join the British Chiropractic Association, whilst that may be the case, they do have their own professional association:
http://www.mctimoney-chiropractic.or...objectives.htm

Interestingly, their association says that “By correctly training the hands as an instrument of innate intelligence, healing can be encouraged to take place by the detection and correction of bony subluxations”. That suggests that they’re probably too new-agey for the more scientific image that the British Chiropractic Association likes to project – although even it can be just as guilty of pseudoscientific leanings:

You rely on your spinal cord
Like at telephone network, your spinal cord delivers messages from your brain to your body through the nervous system. The vertebrae - the bones of your spine - provide protection for this vital part of your body. As you go through life, a loss of proper function (movement) in the vertebrae, which some chiropractors call a subluxation, may interfere with the healthy working of your spine and the nerves that run through it. This may affect your body’s natural ability to recover from injury and you may find yourself increasingly unwell, unable to shake off apparently minor aches, pains and even some illness.

http://www.chiropractic-uk.co.uk/gfx...ur%20spine.pdf

Note the weasel words in the above quote: may interfere, may affect, may find...

I have to agree with John Jackson that subluxations don’t exist and I’d steer well clear of chiropractors too.

[Allo Allo]

When I first started here I was quite clear that I was "having a thought crisis". I am throwing myself and my ideas against a wall to see if there ARE any pieces left...I don't think I've done this RUDELY.

I do have issue with the unthinking blah that can be "predicted" to be posted here that is an example of "herd mentality". That is NOT skepiticism - it's something else.

Bullshit.

You barely understand science or skepticism at all. You're just sounding like the multitude of Woos who so desperately need to attack skeptics because they can't justify their ideas and beliefs.

If you don't like our conclusions (which are arrived at independently ) then why not counter them with a well-considered logical argument?

We've heard the "closed-minded skeptic" crap before - let's have a quality counter-argument if you think we're so badly wrong.

Which of your well-considered logical arguments leading to "conclusions" (which are arrived at independently) would those be? "Bullshit" possibly? - I am seldom rude - but outspoken yes! I am quite clear in my mind that there is a skeptic "culture" - "herd mentality" a "fundamentalism" - and this is not "progress" - and there is so much fundamentalism about right now - who needs more?

M

[Mongrel]

Given that clinical trials have shown little effect beyond placebo for Chiropractic manipulation the ball's in their court to show it works. Here's a meta-study from Bandolier carried out in 1994 and I think the end comment sums it up nicely

A bit of a mixed bag. A remarkable lack of evidence for interventions carried out so commonly.