Pope says 'Sorry'.

[Admin]

The pope, God's representative on Earth, has apologised for offending Muslims by quoting a 14th Century Christian emperor who said "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached"

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5351988.stm

Good on him. He's only fallible after all..... isn't he?

[Zendal Darkman]

In a statement read out by a senior Vatican official, the Pope said he respected Islam and hoped Muslims would understand the true sense of his words.

..so according to the pope's worldview, Islam is responsible for people going to hell, and he respects it? Seems rather odd to me.

Does seem to be the line people taking, that we should respect religions (even though at the very most only one can be right). Personally I tolerate religions (up to a point) rather than respect them

(of course respecting someone right to follow a religion is different to respecting the religion)

[kath23]

(of course respecting someone right to follow a religion is different to respecting the religion)

An atheist take on 'love the sinner, hate the sin'

[wollery]

An atheist take on 'love the sinner, hate the sin'

Love the believer, hate the belief?

[Dr B]

It might also be a good idea to read the sppech and comments in context. My take on the full context is that he was saying religion and violence do not mix (not historically accurate i know - but that seemed to be what he was trying to say).

So, in essence, people who kill in the name of religion are not doing so for religious reasons. He needs to sack his speech writer - but i think if one takes a considered approach this sort of message is there.... :-\

I may of course, be completely wrong.....

[vbloke]

It might also be a good idea to read the sppech and comments in context. My take on the full context is that he was saying religion and violence do not mix (not historically accurate i know - but that seemed to be what he was trying to say).

So, in essence, people who kill in the name of religion are not doing so for religious reasons. He needs to sack his speech writer - but i think if one takes a considered approach this sort of message is there.... :-\

I may of course, be completely wrong.....

interesting statistics on who killed more in the bible - god or satan: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot....an-or-god.html

[seren]

See, when I first heard about this, I thought he was a fool for saying it, but now I don't think Muslims have any right to protest about a quote. If I said right here:

Albert J Tompkins of 5, The Hollies, Dorchester, thinks all Irish people are thick

What right would that give Irish people to attack me? The pope didn't use the quote to elucidate HIS opinion of Muslims.

Their response is hysterical and unjustified, IMHO.

This worries me. Not so long ago someone in the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAC) tried to get a BBC article removed. Sunny Hundal, a Sikh and the editor of Asians in Media, was quoted in it. He has criticised some Muslim organisations in the past and therefore has a reputation for Islamophobia amongst some Muslims.

The article has the following sentence:

"Sunny Hundal says many young Muslims now prefer the web and the Asian digital channels to the mainstream media, and with good reason."

People took this to be getting an Islamophobe to speak "on behalf of Muslims" and demanded the article be taken down.

Utterly ludicrous IMHO. This is going to far. Soon I won't be able to use the word Muslim at all, in case it's misrepresentation.

[Admin]

I started reading the speech in full but got bored.

I was just amused that 'papal infallibility' is a somewhat, erm, fallible idea.

[seren]

He's not wrong, he's differently right.

[Admin]

Well, it seems that the pope is infallible after all.....

Except when he's wrong. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5355758.stm

That clears that up then!! :D

[Hazen]

Utterly ludicrous IMHO. This is going to far. Soon I won't be able to use the word Muslim at all, in case it's misrepresentation.

Instead of 'muslim' I think the phrase 'retarded freak' would do just nicely.


http://www.ropma.net/main.htm

[chillzero]

Instead of 'muslim' I think the phrase 'retarded freak' would do just nicely.

I find that comment quite offensive.

[boffin]

I saw on the Daily Politics an interesting interview between Andrew Neil and a muslim from one of the many muslim groups who claim to represent muslims in Britain.
Andrew Neil asked him why it was that when 200,000 muslims in Darfur have been raped and murdered by other muslims, there are no protests by muslims, but when the pope quotes a 14th century emperor, there are mass demonstrations by muslims which include burning effigies of the pope, attacking churches and shooting a 60 year-old catholic nun in the back (how brave). The muslim chap was flustered and unable to answer.
It does appear that many muslims have got their priorities wrong and refuse to accept that there are muslims who are persecuted, raped and murdered by other muslims.

[Jocky]

Instead of 'muslim' I think the phrase 'retarded freak' would do just nicely.

I find that comment quite offensive.

I agree. Name calling does not address the issues at stake.

[rant]
The link Hazen posted does not constitute a critical look at religious belief and its influence on violent acts throughout history, which would be an entirely appropriate discussion to have (and incidentally is probably what the Pope was intending to do, although he unfortunately did not go about it in the most productive manner).

Instead, it uses cartoons to draw a rather crude caricature of the link between Islam and terrorism. I don't like this kind of thing - not because this issue itself is not worthy of critical analysis (it is), but because publishing something which boils down to "Muslims are all morons who support terrorism" seems to me to be a instance of the Fallacy of Converse Accident. I felt much the same about the infamous "Mohammed with the bomb in his turban" cartoon.

I don't propose that such images should be banned (attacks on freedom of speech create more problems than they solve), and I don't think that religious belief should be exempt from satire. But I do think that crass cartoons of this kind should be clearly seen as what they are - mere caricatures, full of sweeping generalisations and failures of logic and critical thinking, which have no place in reasoned debate >:(
[/rant]

[Hazen]

I find that comment quite offensive

There's no reason why you should, unless you're a muslim, in which case I'd say the problem is yours.
It's not name calling, as far as I am concerned, merely a statement of fact. People whose world view, way of life (which includes as you know, the oppression/rape/murder of women, the murder of their own children in the name of 'honour' etc etc etc), basis for morality, willingness to commit mass murder etc, is based on belief in medieval fairy stories, merely because they were told to do so, in my opinion, are entirely deserving of the title.

The link Hazen posted does not constitute a critical look at religious belief and its influence on violent acts throughout history, which would be an entirely appropriate discussion to have

True. I would have thought it obvious that this was not intended as a basis of critical discussion or evaluation. I posted this link because it made me laugh. I am heartily fed up, unto the back teeth, with the now regular news stories along the lines of: outcry from muslim community over offence to their belief system by blah blah...
In the light of past & recent events, I am glad to see there are still some who are not cowed by these barbaric savages.

As for discussion, I see no basis for any: Invisible sky ghost told me to enslave/oppress/murder you because you don't believe in the absurdly ridiculous as I do?

I make no apologies.