When is a Muslim really a Muslim?

**chaggle** · 18th May 2010, 09:05 AM

(You can substitute Christian, Jew or any other religion into the title)

Here is a pretty lady

She was hailed as the shining example of the American dream, a Lebanese-born woman who became the first Muslim Miss U.S.A.
Marketing executive Rima Fakih, 24, beat 50 other contestants to win the beauty pageant in Las Vegas.
But her victory was already becoming tarnished last night by revelations that she won a pole dancing contest at a strip club in Detroit in 2007.

She is being described as a Muslim but she doesn't appear fit the stereotype.

Anyway is she being described as a Muslim because she was brought up as a Muslim? Does that mean I'm a Christian? If you are born a Jew - are you always a Jew?

**Matt** · 18th May 2010, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by chaggle

(You can substitute Christian, Jew or any other religion into the title)

Here is a pretty lady

She is being described as a Muslim but she doesn't appear fit the stereotype.

Anyway is she being described as a Muslim because she was brought up as a Muslim? Does that mean I'm a Christian? If you are born a Jew - are you always a Jew?

If you believe that your sky daddy is called Allah and that Mohammed was his prophet then that's enough for me. Whilst there may be many other Muslims that say that no true Muslim would behave in such an immodest way, there are other who cite when Mohammed said it was OK to look at a woman naked before you decided if you were to marry her as condoning pornography.

**Croydon Bob** · 18th May 2010, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by chaggle

Does that mean I'm a Christian? If you are born a Jew - are you always a Jew?

No, yes.

**chaggle** · 18th May 2010, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Croydon Bob

No, yes.

What's the difference? I was born (no forget that, I don't know), brought up, educated, christened, confirmed(!) as a Christian, now, according to you, I am not one (I agree). But a Jew, once a Jew is always a Jew. Why? And what makes this woman a Muslim? The fact that she was born one? Or brought up one?

**Matt** · 19th May 2010, 08:11 AM

Judaism is a race as well as a religion. If you are racially Jewish then even if you renounce the faith you're still, in a different sense, Jewish.

**Croydon Bob** · 19th May 2010, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Matt

Judaism is a race as well as a religion. If you are racially Jewish then even if you renounce the faith you're still, in a different sense, Jewish.

Yes. At least as far as many people think. The reality is a bit more complicated (East European Jews with no middle-east DNA, etc). Jews are widely recognised as a distinct ethnic group in various ways including legally in some countries and by racists who don't think that religious conversion is enough.