You could always take it out of the finder's fee.
(I think I've found the post, but I can't seem to get to the comments)
I'm just laughing my nuts off over in a forum I'm a member of. It's called 'ecademy' and it's where business people talk about, generally, crap.
Anyhoo, a big thing kicked off where they were talking about 'The Law of Attraction' and the films 'The Secret' and 'What the Bleep...'. I got my cards marked when I pointed out it was all twaddle. Anyway, I'll cut to the chase...
The site is full of 'psychics' and tarot readers and generally the sort of people who think Amway is a solid business model. So I decided to challenge them to take the ASKE 13K test.
Someone actually said I was 'baiting' them!!! What??!!! Me!!!!??
They said that if I was genuine and not just trying to goad them, I should offer to match the winnings.
So I have.
So, if I end up owing 13K to a psychic I might need some hand outs until I've made some money on the freak circuit with my newly found psychic pal.
You could always take it out of the finder's fee.
(I think I've found the post, but I can't seem to get to the comments)
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield
I keep getting this terrible feeling of deja woo.
Brilliant! I'll make sure everyone knows about it on the thread. Turning out to be quite a challenge this, with no response as yet, but y'know, I'm an optimistic guy... (cough)
Baiting poor defenceless woos? Shame on you!
Any chance you could post a link to the thread in which you threw down the gauntlet? I could do with a laugh ...
Oh it would be my absolute pleasure!!!
This was the first post and only skeptics actually responded with some quite funny comments, but that's not the best bit, the best is yet to come.Social : Raise money for Children in need, doing what you do? by Andy on 13-Nov-06 4:22pm
There have been lots of posts lately about subjects that could only be described as 'paranormal', i.e. they are outside the realms of science and are generally scorned by the 'sceptics' amongst us.
Such subjects are the Law of Attraction, Tarot reading, Psychic Powers, Telepathy etc.
The blogs have caused a stir because you have the believers on one side saying "It works" and the sceptics saying "Prove it". It generally stalls at that point and thousands of posts later, we're no nearer to an answer.
Now it's obviously possible to prove these things because many people are selling their services based on them. Check out the marketplace for people willing to do a tarot reading/psychic reading and any other number of (in science terms) endeavors of an 'unproven' nature.
Rather than just start another spitting match, why not just prove it beyond doubt?
For some time now James Randi has had the $1,000,000.00 challenge, but that's in the US and it can be prohibitively expensive to apply. However the Association for Skeptical Enquiry in the UK has a £13,000 pot if someone can prove their ability.
As a member, I would be willing to help the applicant through the process and report the results here.
I think there should be rules, so here are some starters:
- All applicants will be shown here, maybe I'll create a club to keep it all tidy
- Any results, positive or negative will be reported
- Should the applicant win the ASKE challenge and the £13,000, costs will be deducted up to a maximum of £1000. Should the applicant then be invited, £2000.00 will be deducted for costs to apply for the Randi Challenge. The rest (£10,000) will be donated to charity.
These are preliminary figures and ideas, I'd hate to lose applicants because a rule is not acceptable, so if you're interested but find the rules too restrictive, let me know and we'll try to find some common ground.
So, there's a guy on there called "Alexander (Psychic) Maclean". On ecademy, if someone looks at your profile, you get an email saying so. He looked, so I sent him an email:
He responded:Hi Alexander, why don't you take my challenge?
Obviously I'm excited!!! It sounds like he's going to apply!!! Yay!Hello Andy Thanks for the invitation. Why not join our Paranormal Club too: We invite all too join us. regards Alexander
He replies:Hi Alexander, does this mean you'll be applying for the challenge?
I'm afraid I dont' want to join the club - too many as it is.
(my bold there)Hi Andy That is okay that you can't join our club. My path ahead doesn't show me taking any such challenges. regards
So, I give myself a few minutes to recover from the laughing fit, nip to the toilet and respond:
To which he responds:Does that mean you have no choice?
It's for charity, if you can do what you do then it would be a simple task and 10K would go immediately to a very worthy cause.
Weasle weasle weasle. I respond:Sorry it is not in my path to do such challenges. Why don't you do it?
To which I receive no response and the leads goes cold.Because I'm not psychic and neither do I say I am. The challenge is open to those who say they are and offer the services.
For example, in my spare time I write code for charities and help out local groups with donations. I give free help and assistance to people and clubs in my village - it's part of putting something back.
I do this because my trade is programming and IT, so I give some of my time doing what I do.
As your trade is in the paranormal arena, it would surely be an easy task for you to take out a couple of hours to take the challenge and earn £10,000 for a very worthwhile cause.
I've joined your club by the way, I'd like to discuss this with other members.
You can understand I'm a bit deflated now. I mean, it looked like he'd do it and I was quite excited by it all, but no, he can't. It's his path you see. Must be crazy paving.
Annnnyyyhoo, there's another thread about Children In Need so I post a link to my blog. Someone responds:
Oooohhhh, cutting! I'm hurt!! Only skin y'know, if I'm cut, do I not bleed....instead of just attracting his own blog...or posting his own since he doesn't believe it...instead he piggybacks on a legitamate fund for a good cause. Niiiice Andy.
Wait! Someone leaps to my defense....
Yay! I respond:They are both fundraising for the same cause - the same children benefit in the end - so I think it was an excellent idea for Andy to post here as well.
Well done Andy!!!!
But somehow, Heidi thinks I'm being a bit 'goady':Thanks Leanne, it's a shame some people are so cynical as to believe I'm 'riding on coattails'. Surely whatever is necessary to raise money for a worthy cause is worth posting.
I'm disappointed in Heidi, I didn't realise she could think so ill of people.
Hmmm.... I respond:haha really! Pish tosh! ...speaking ill of you? I am laughing here! lordy! When all along all you've been doing is exactly what you post here does and that is to bait people about their belief in the law of attraction or psychi abilities...this post is no different...
here...but if you want to prove your faith in your abilities having nothing to do with baiting anyone, that you actually truly and with deep heartfelt belief feel that this attempt of yours will truly raise money for CHILDREN...that you have such faith that it will actually raise money and not by baiting anyone, how about, as you are practically willing to bet...how about the end result..no matter what, is that you will donate the same amount?
..THEN you'll have yourself a winning thread, it will entirely prove that you were in earnest and weren't just trying to bait anyone, then I'll eat my hat and promise to believe that it is I that is the cynic and not you, sir.
Well it seems you're asking me to donate 10K 'no matter what', which I can't do because I can't afford it (and the wife would kill me!), however, if people respond to my challenge and pass the test as laid down by ASKE, I'll donate the same amount.
Want salt with that?
And that, dear reader, is that! No more posts from anyone!! How come?
Well, you were being just a teeny bit goady, weren't you? (you naughty boy )
After all, we all know that because there ain't any such thing as a real psychic, there is not a snowball's chance in Hell that Children in Need will actually get ASKE's money - or yours.
Heidi probably knows that too, although she may delude herself that "people always fail the tests because the nasssty horrid skeptics fix it so the poor little genuine psychics can't pass, even though they're so totally for real ... "
Such a delusion would only be reinforced by the apparent contradiction in your assertion that "I can't afford it ... however, if people respond to my challenge and pass the test as laid down by ASKE, I'll donate the same amount". Woos might assume that the only reason you are so ready to stake money which by your own admission you do not have is because you know the test is 'crocked', or something >:(
However, she is right (albeit perhaps for the wrong reasons) when she implies that you don't really believe "that this attempt of yours will truly raise money for CHILDREN". You aren't trying to fundraise for charity at all, you're in the business of debunking self-proclaimed psychics - but unfortunately such activity does not actually raise money for good causes.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all in favour of promoting the ASKE Challenge, or any other properly conducted test of claimed psychic powers. The more nutters like 'Alexander' who are exposed for the frauds they are, the more fence-sitters will be persuaded to turn away from their ridiculous claims. Mind that you don't make yourself look mean-spirited in the process though, 'cos there's nothing a woo likes better than a free ad hominem shot at a skeptic :(
Oh don't get me wrong, I've already pointed out in other threads that I *will* be making donations and have done in the past. But the challenge is surely very easy to understand. They're just trying to make me out as a 'nasty' one because I'be been...well... less than encouraging towards them.
But, I take your point on the funding, in one place I'm saying I won't pay, in the other I'm saying I will.
No-one has yet picked up on that yet. Because they're all friggin' stoopid.
I'm giving it until Friday then I'll post an update and clear up some of the foggy areas and also up the ante a bit. If I can claim the 'finders fee' then I'll up the amount to be given to Children in Need and other worthy causes.
At the end of the day, I'm not the one making the claims, they are, and they're making them daily.
Fair enough, if you have a track record of being charitable then that should be enough to see her off. I'd suggest laying out your defence as concisely as possible, then getting the thread straight back on topic.
Obviously, you have to expect that woos will attack you when you try to show up their garbage for what it is. If you give them the slightest opportunity to label you as a mean old scrooge, they'll sieze on the ammo quicker than you can say "ad hominem" (assuming they are bright enough to spot the opportunity, of course :) )
Keep up the good work, and please keep us posted if one of them bites at your offer (unlikely, but you never know ... )
Isn't it amazing that with so many gifted and talented psychics out there not a single one of them will put themselves forward to be tested under properly controlled conditions?
Why the lack of confidence?
I suspect that they probably know that what they do isn't real. At least they don't have enough confidence in their ability to take the chance of having it tested.
Good work though At least it shows that they are afraid to put their money where their mouth is - even when it comes to benefiting a children's charity.
Actually, there's been a development!
I got banned from the site.
Now, the true reason for this is as yet unknown. Their explanation is that I used a false name, which would come a surprise to my mom - I've used it for a good 36 years now and it's also on the credit card I used to join up. I think they goofed.
Anyway, other possible reasons are:
- In a personal note to the founder of the site, I implicated that he was an idiot for believing that a 35,000 year old warrior from Atlantis was being channelled through an American housewife. (i.e. in 'What the Bleep')
- In another topic I said something like "Bloody amazing" which was edited to "Very amazing" and I got a complaint lodged against me for using 'offensive words'. I emailed them saying that education was needed in the ranks as 'bloody' is neither swearing or offensive (together with a link to the dictionary definition).
- In a thread about 'The Secret' I alledged that the management were being idiotic in promoting, nay recommending 'The Secret' even though it was quite clearly a marketing ploy by a cult designed to extract cash from gullible and desperate people.
- I'm just generally a pain in the arse
I've asked for clarification of the banning, all information held on me as per the Data Protection Act and I'm currently joining up with a bunch of others who were banned (who share my views) with the potential of raising a Class Action against them for defamation of character (some others have lost good business through their cack-handed ways as they announced the banning on their front page).
I might let them off if they or one of their many 'crystal gazing' friends passes the ASKE challenge.
Exciting 'aint it?!!!
Brrr, they sound like tossers. I would cut your losses with them and avoid interacting with them as much as poss.
If anyone makes/discusses the class action you could hide in the ranks, but keep your head down....
Mind you I have just had dealings with a particularly nasty person online so am a bit timid :)
I'm not 23 unfortunately, there was already a Kath, and I like the number 23:)
It's actually a proper business, companies house listed and everything. They've been rumoured to be up for sale for 20million (cat in hell's chance though). They've managed to screw over a lot of people recently, considering it can cost up to 3000 to be a member.
To be honest, I have no intention of going back, but a lot of people have lost out to the tune of thousands so they're rightly quite upset.
I'm just sticking around for the fireworks to be honest, it's just a big car crash of a tragedy. I'd like to go back and post one last update to the psychic challenge (such as the hilarious answers I've had to my questions) then I'm outta there.
How about an entry for the commentary?
If they're a bunch of woos banning anyone who asks questions they don't like then let's expose them.
Very, very good idea. I was thinking I might write to ASKE too.
Apparently they've appointed a mediator to work out a way forward. I'll be asking some very tough questions should I get the chance, but when it's all done, I'll put something together for you condensing all I've already said plus all the other information. Unfortunately I can't get to most of it yet, as soon as they comply with my DP request, I should have everything however.
I'll keep you posted.
I bet you are, Sarge! Way to goI'm just generally a pain in the arse
Think of all those lurkers who you might have helped to think again about woo, though :)
£3,000 to become a member? :o You could probably join the Royal and Ancient Golf Club or MCC for that kind of money. What do they get in return for that kinda cash?
Look forward to hearing the next instalment ...