Crystals

[vbloke]

Can anyone spot a flaw in my reasoning here?

It is claimed by various people that crystal "vibrate"

If this is true then they should be warm.

SO I propose a small test - place a crystal and something of a similar nature and size (cut glass, for example) in a freezer overnight.

Next morning, time how long both objects take to come up to room temperature. If crystals truly vibrate, then it should warm up considerably quicker than the other object.

[median]

Mark, a few things off the top of my head

Firstly both the control and the test subject need similar properties such as heat capacity, conductivity and density. I am thinking in terms of thermal mass (heat up rates) which will affect the outcome of the experiment

Secondly, accurate thermal measurement may prove difficult, what method would you propose to use?

Thirdly, the type of heat transfer from environment to object may be a factor. For example, the surface of the crystal (roughness, porosity) might aid or hinder convective heat transfer. The opacity and reflective properties will have an effect on radiative transfer.

Probably better to go from freezer to pre-heated oven.

Just a thought ???

[vbloke]

Thanks

I was thinking of the typical "Healing crystal" that is sold in many alternative type shops as compared to those cut-glass crystals also available in said shops.

For temperature measurement, I was thinking of 2 digital thermometers (properly calibrated, of course), one for each.

Take both out of the freezer and place on a poor heat conducting surface.

[median]

Mmm, will give it a bit of thought.

In terms of healing crystals which I am not totally au fait with these things but do they appear to be a singular material or are there a range of different ones (I may be thinking of birth stones here) :-\

[vbloke]

As far as I can tell, they're normally along the lines of quartz crystals and the like.

It's hard to tell, I was in a shop yesterday in Hertford that sold a variety of them, but they all looked like the same type of milky, off white crystal (which is why I assumed quartz).

[Dr B]

I agree withthe points Median has raised - even if it were true, i doubt you would be able to measure the heat difference as the vibration is sure very small.

However, if the claim is vibration - why not directly test that with an accelerometer? You would need a sensitive one of course - but they might not be too expensive. No need to put the extra degree of freedom of Vibration = heat. You can say Vibration = vibration.

I could imagine something like having a mounting, measuring the crystal and a baseline object like that described above. Background vibration will be measured by the baseline object (i.e., that not associated with the objects) - then simply subtract that from the crystal data. If you are left with anything - then, assuming all else is constant, it must be the vibration of the crystal.

[Admin]

All crystals vibrate. I think there's a general misunderstanding that because some crystals, notably Quartz, are used in electronic circuits (with a voltage applied etc.) that they vibrate whereas other non-naturalTM crystals don't.

But as Median pointed out, the problem is that different crystals will have different physical properties so it's not going to produce a meaningful result to simply compare 2 crystals in such a test.

You'll only be measuring the Specific Heat Capacity of the crystals.

[Araneus]

Can anyone spot a flaw in my reasoning here?
It is claimed by various people that crystal "vibrate"
If this is true then they should be warm.

Leaving aside the issues about thermal capacity and measurement techniques that have been raised by others, I think you are vastly overestimating the capacity of woos (who are presumably the target of this demonstration) to understand the link between vibrations and heat, meaning that your results will fall on deaf ears no matter how scientifically conclusive they may be.

Woos don't even know what they mean when they talk about "vibrations", just like when they say "quantum" or "energy" -- they are just throwing around terms in total ignorance of their meaning. Proving that the literal scientific properties implied by their statements are not present is not going to convince them of their error.

[vbloke]

Leaving aside the issues about thermal capacity and measurement techniques that have been raised by others, I think you are vastly overestimating the capacity of woos (who are presumably the target of this demonstration) to understand the link between vibrations and heat, meaning that your results will fall on deaf ears no matter how scientifically conclusive they may be.

Woos don't even know what they mean when they talk about "vibrations", just like when they say "quantum" or "energy" -- they are just throwing around terms in total ignorance of their meaning. Proving that the literal scientific properties implied by their statements are not present is not going to convince them of their error.

I am well aware that any evidence that does not fall into their worldview will be ignored (see Emily Rosa and Therapeutic Touch), what I'm trying to do is at least provide a framework for people who have heard the "crystals vibrate" hypothesis and have no idea if it's true or not.

You'll never convince the true believer, but the rest of us, without evidence can only go on what others say. If we had some piece of empirical evidence to say "actually, that's not correct...", then I think you at least have some ammunition.

Any claim, no matter how seemingly bizarre, deserves to be tested - crystal vibrations are the type of things that are so silly that no self respecting scientist would go near it - it's up to us to do the work to test it.

[Dene]

Hi vbloke

Back to your original question - yes crystals do vibrate, the science to prove this was done a long time ago.

Two examples from science are the quartz watch and from my childhood making crystal sets (an early form of radio) .

I have no experience of them in healing myself but I understand that it is based on the theory that the body is a living crystalline structure which can resonate with the vibration of a crystal placed on or near it with beneficial effects.

[Araneus]

I have no experience of them in healing myself but I understand that it is based on the theory that the body is a living crystalline structure which can resonate with the vibration of a crystal placed on or near it with beneficial effects.

Yeah well it isn't, so that "theory" is bunk for a start. If human bodies were crystalline they would be rock solid and immobile.

The "vibrations" that happen in a quartz watch are powered externally by the battery, the crystal just keeps the vibrations happening at the right speed. It is just like a pendulum, which is used for keeping time but does not actually power itself or generate any energy of any kind.

[Lister]

You can easily get/make crystals that will stay warm (or even hot) without any external power source.
All you need is for the crystals to be composed of one or more radioactive elements.

That was in fact how radioactivity was discovered. Some 'stones' of a particular type were observed to always be warmer than 'ordinary' ones and that baffled scientists of the time. The stones were being warmed by the energy released by atoms decaying radioactively.

I'm not sure a health ring made of Polonium based crystals would be very healthy at all. It would certainly be hot though.

[median]

I'm not sure a health ring made of Polonium based crystals would be very healthy at all. It would certainly be hot though.

Not to be taken orally though.
As testified by Litvinenko:-\