Madeleine McCann: here come the psychic predators.

[Admin]

A PS if I may: The Yoga tradition over thousands of years describes the human being as having multi-dimensions. Not just the physical but also subtle energy fields, chakras, mental/emotional body, etheric body.

It's a belief system - none of which has been shown to be real.

When you invoke 'energies' etc. that cannot be detected you're into the realm of magical thinking.

Believing in something does not make it true.

The existing literature on out-of-body experiences also relates to this philosophy, and is the subject of clinical research through Dr. Peter Fenwick and his colleagues at Charing Cross Hospital, currently with cardiac arrest patients. Peter Fenwick's publications are listed on Amazon for reference. His work, as I understand it, is to research the
possibility that consciousness exists independently of the physical brain. Again, the research he presents is well worth reading in the
context of material under discussion (and the sceptical ridicule, it might be said) on this site.

Yes we've heard of Peter Fenwick. My colleague on here, Dr B, who's a neuroscientist, is less than impressed with Fenwick's work.

[Dr B]

Peter Fenwick's publications are listed on Amazon for reference. His work, as I understand it, is to research the
possibility that consciousness exists independently of the physical brain. Again, the research he presents is well worth reading in the
context of material under discussion (and the sceptical ridicule, it might be said) on this site.

Beverely

This is quite wrong. Please take the time to read many of the interesting threads around here and you will see I and others have discussed the logical and factual errors in the reasoning of Fenwick and colleagues. They have no evidence for anything - only their convinction that they want it to be true!!!

Thankfully, science has a better way of researching things
Please take the time to read the threads and the main website. If you require any clarification on any issues - please dont hesitate to ask. It is often a good place to start. 8)

[edit] I am also slightly worried that you seem to accept Fenwick's work in an unquestioned manner. Is this merely because you see it as confirming your pre-existing belief system?

[Admin]

http://www.caroleverett.com/maddy-mccann.htm

This particular psychic/healer/intuitive/aura reading/channeller/energy worker/astrologer/etc. seems to have her own gimmick used to convince the gullible that she 'helps the police'.

She makes drawings of the suspects in advance of the criminals being caught. This gimmick is not unique but at least we can safely say that they are predictions to some degree as we won't know what the perpetrators of the crime look like until they're caught.

Of course, there are descriptions of suspects in the media so it might just be worth drawing pictures that match these descriptions.

Looking at the 'picture ID gallery' however, shows that a great deal of subjective license (and a great deal of credulity) is required to make the match between the real person and the drawing.

I also notice that Carol Everett is yet another psychic who claims to have helped with the Soham murders.

Well, I've saved the web page and the photo predictions so we can come back to this when/if this case is ever solved.

[BeverlyM]

If you didn't think a great deal of Carol Everett's work (personally, I found it exceptionally accurate and convincing) - why not take a look at:

Police turn to psychics to solve crimes:

2 May 2007: www.newsmonster.co.uk


A very authentic piece. However, I don't expect or even want anyone
to be 'convinced'. This is a personal issue for each of us and we can only wish one another "Shalom" in the journey, which I do.

You may also wish to research Dr. Peter Fenwick's work, currently with
cardiac arrest patients at the Charing Cross Hospital - researching
consciousness independent of the brain. He has written widely on out-of-body experiences and his work is especially recommended. There is
evidence to be found and I do encourage to look at the more serious and ethical side of this whole question - it is far too important for simplistic answers, as I'm sure you will agree. Yoga philosophy will take readers down a similar route to a definition of consciousness and the human being far beyond our three-dimensional world. Decide for ourselves? Of course, but not from the forum of the tabloids.

[Admin]

Well this is getting a little off topic. Someone's personal spiritual enlightenment (or journey into delusion depending on how you look at it) has nothing to do with self-proclaimed psychics finding missing persons.

Unless Carol Everett's drawings are spot on, and they certainly are anything but, then they serve no purpose other than to bolster her claims after the event to those gullible enough to see a likeness in pictures that isn't there.

[vbloke]

If you didn't think a great deal of Carol Everett's work (personally, I found it exceptionally accurate and convincing)

You find it convincing because you do not question her actions, motives or reasoning. I have looked through her site and found vague statements, terrible connections that are supposed to be "uncanny" and half-truths.

why not take a look at:

Police turn to psychics to solve crimes:

2 May 2007: www.newsmonster.co.uk

A very authentic piece. However, I don't expect or even want anyone
to be 'convinced'. This is a personal issue for each of us and we can only wish one another "Shalom" in the journey, which I do.

see here

You may also wish to research Dr. Peter Fenwick's work, currently with
cardiac arrest patients at the Charing Cross Hospital - researching
consciousness independent of the brain. He has written widely on out-of-body experiences and his work is especially recommended. There is
evidence to be found and I do encourage to look at the more serious and ethical side of this whole question - it is far too important for simplistic answers, as I'm sure you will agree. Yoga philosophy will take readers down a similar route to a definition of consciousness and the human being far beyond our three-dimensional world. Decide for ourselves? Of course, but not from the forum of the tabloids.

Yet you quote from tabloids as your proof and evidence.

Dr Fenwick, as DrB here will tell you (and already has) is guilty of very faulty reasoning and his methods are highly suspect.

There is evidence to be found here - but I can predict you won't look at any of it (as you've already proved with the police use psychics line again and again) whereas we have looked at your links and examined the evidence within and given you our opinions. You have not, you simply repeat the same tired arguments even when presented with evidence to the contrary.

[atheistgirl]

Hi,

This is my first post!

Could this be the Stuart Higman in question? Fits the description.

Image1 - guy in vehicle wearing beret
Image2 - wearing combats, crouched in foreground
Image3 - article taken from a Royal Navy newsletter about a charity event

There is a Stuart Higman listed in the captions for all 3 of these pictures, seems like the same person to me. Wonder why he's no longer in the Royal Navy, he looks too young to have retired, and judging by the date of the newsletter, he's only very recently ex-Navy.

Doesn't seem like he's currently a 'professional psychic'. He may genuinely believe he has magic powers, in which case he's the one in need of help, and I mean that sincerely. There are a lot of con-artists willing to prey on the vulnerable but it's easy to forget that there are also a lot of self-deluded people, who actually need help themselves.

AtheistGirl

[Cuddles]

A PS if I may: The Yoga tradition over thousands of years describes the human being as having multi-dimensions. Not just the physical but also subtle energy fields, chakras, mental/emotional body, etheric body.
The third eye in this system is acknowledged as potentially opening and
developing so that intuition and inner-seeing becomes possible. (I have
been privileged to experience the third-eye and it is a glorious, rainbow-coloured, pulsing, moving wheel). Within this model, Light is acknowledged as being real, accessible and potentially part of healing
energy. Unless a person can study this philosophy, and move from the
three-dimensional view of the human, to one which includes four and
perhaps even more dimensions, then the logical perspective only will
prevail. It is rather like trying to explain the depth and nature of the
oceans to someone who insists that only the boat and the surface of the water is real.

The existing literature on out-of-body experiences also relates to this philosophy, and is the subject of clinical research through Dr. Peter Fenwick and his colleagues at Charing Cross Hospital, currently with cardiac arrest patients. Peter Fenwick's publications are listed on Amazon for reference. His work, as I understand it, is to research the
possibility that consciousness exists independently of the physical brain. Again, the research he presents is well worth reading in the
context of material under discussion (and the sceptical ridicule, it might be said) on this site.

Nope.

[Jocky]

Nope.

If anyone is interested in some of the detail behind Cuddles' pithy comment, there's a relevant thread here containing recent discussion on Fenwick's work. Some good reasons there to question the validity of his conclusions.

[Admin]

There is a Stuart Higman listed in the captions for all 3 of these pictures, seems like the same person to me. Wonder why he's no longer in the Royal Navy, he looks too young to have retired, and judging by the date of the newsletter, he's only very recently ex-Navy.

It's quite possible it's him although of course it could be someone else with the same name.

If a military career begins at age 18 then the ex-military person would only be 40 after serving 22 years so wouldn't necessarily look particularly old.

Good find though AtheistGirl.

[cheznath]

http://www.caroleverett.com/maddy-mccann.htm

This particular psychic/healer/intuitive/aura reading/channeller/energy worker/astrologer/etc. seems to have her own gimmick used to convince the gullible that she 'helps the police'.

She makes drawings of the suspects in advance of the criminals being caught. This gimmick is not unique but at least we can safely say that they are predictions to some degree as we won't know what the perpetrators of the crime look like until they're caught.

Of course, there are descriptions of suspects in the media so it might just be worth drawing pictures that match these descriptions.

Looking at the 'picture ID gallery' however, shows that a great deal of subjective license (and a great deal of credulity) is required to make the match between the real person and the drawing.

I also notice that Carol Everett is yet another psychic who claims to have helped with the Soham murders.

Well, I've saved the web page and the photo predictions so we can come back to this when/if this case is ever solved.

(New to the conversation)
Well John, I do not pretend that Carol Everett is a credible psychic but I think in order for you to fully understand what a psychic (I like the word medium better) is and what kind of abilities they have, I strongly invite you and all your skeptic friends to experience at least one meeting with a "recognized" medium and then comment on it. Of course, the idea is that you meet with someone with real abilities and I trust you won't have any problems finding one. Why am I suggesting this? Because I have done it myself and I now have a different view on the subject. I will spare you the details on my experience. This is just a suggestion.
(excuse my average English, I'm a French living in the US)

[Jocky]

(New to the conversation)

Hi Cheznath, and welcome to UKS

I strongly invite you and all your skeptic friends to experience at least one meeting with a "recognized" medium and then comment on it. Of course, the idea is that you meet with someone with real abilities and I trust you won't have any problems finding one.

As a skeptic friend of John's, might I ask how can we can tell whether or not someone has "real" abilities? If we can't tell the difference between "real" mediums and fakes, it will be difficult to find one to meet ...

[Dr B]

What makes this person think we have not worked with mediums for years before and based our comments on detailed observation? :-\

[Jocky]

What makes this person think we have not worked with mediums for years before and based our comments on detailed observation? :-\

It's obvious, Doc - all the ones we've worked with before have been charlatans. Cheznath has visited a real medium, and think that if we have the same experience then the scales will fall from our eyes.

[Mongrel]

Oh look, the "Don't knock it until you've tried it!"

From the link,

I'm often asked to try some form of woo, usually quackery, before I knock it, as if my personal experience will invalidate the absence of controlled studies or even the presence of several negative studies.