An aspect of the “scam” is to make people think they are “running their own business” selling in an MLM system. I am watching someone who thinks she is running her own business and who is trying to recruit people and sell Amway products (UK Amivo). Some years ago she says she joined up with (then) Amway – but never made any money because she did no “recruiting”. She blamed herself. Another person I know also blames herself for not making money. She says that she could recruit people, but they wouldn’t buy the product.
So here, in a tiny town, we have two people who blame themselves because their “own” businesses didn’t make them any money. And now one poor deluded soul is trying AGAIN!
MLM is NOT “your own business”.
“Now you can own your own independent, home based business in a rapidly growing market that is expanding worldwide. How would you like to be the one to decide when you work, how long you work, how much you would like to earn and how soon you would like to retire? If you would like to take control of your future, then this unique, versatile and ethical business model is for you. With low start-up costs and a potential to generate thousands of dollars of residual income every month you can change your life.” (My bolding)
All this is a load of bolony!
In your own business you become more than diligent! You work your ass off night and day for many years before you get known. You sit up nights working out VAT or trying to balance the books. You wake up nights in a cold sweat because someone hasn’t paid you and you have to pay someone else. You slog your own guts out because there is not enough profit to pay staff. You don’t go away on holiday because you can’t afford to close your business. And you don’t mind because you are doing this entirely for YOURSELF.
When, at last, if you are lucky, things get stable and the business “takes off” (usually seven years or more to be an “overnight success”!!) everything about it, is ENTIRELY AND COMPLETELY YOURS. But God you worked for it – and that really feels wonderful!
Even if the person who is trying Amway AGAIN in our town was more than diligent– she would never get to this point. In seven years time, she will still just be a rep for Amway.
The rapidly growing market for Amway is Asia and the East. I find that an uncomfortable thought.
As for comparing apples to apples, I watched the video. I’m afraid I’m not a “supplement” person – I get nearly all the stuff my body needs from “food”. My hackles usually rise if someone mentions “health food” “supplements” and so on – but my WORST is “de-tox”! I have found my kidneys, liver and spleen etc work quite well just by themselves.
But that’s just me – I have found many people are more gullible. (nice pun!)
M
So what percentage of Pharmanex sales are to distributors?Originally Posted by therealbt
Which bits of litigation specifically?
distributor and consumer "can" be the same, not "are" the same.
I await the info with anticipation
Try these for size
www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/08/nuskin3.shtm
www.iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/spring2000/kimpel/cholestin.html
That was the "Skeptics" claim not mine that only those at the top make the money. I was saying if thats the case whats the difference.
So your 25k a year job is that it!!!!!!
how long you been doing the job?
put the same amount of time and effort into MLM and you may have been able to achieve a lot more than what you've got now.(but not guaranteed)
What are you future prospects in you J.O.B? What guarantees you got now? thats a big question. You've got no security in your job.You probably aren't paid what you are worth, and you have not very much control over your income cos no matter how hard you work you're not going to get paid more.
perhaps you ought to try MLM ing in a serious way, and if you have failed once already then think back to when you fell over as a child. I assume your not still on your back so do the same thing, get up and do it again.
but do more due diligence this time.
[quote=therealbt;12234]Now I understand your position. Just wasn't the right company or time for you.[quote]
No. The baisc proposition of MLM is what isn't right, it makes no difference what product or company is involved.
I have read those articles. They are not detailed rebutals and are pretty much solid ad-hom against the whistleblowers and as such they do not take the arguement any further.try reading this article in response to jon taylors requests to the FTC
http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/busin...2418-13244.pdf
also try reading this.
http://www.multileveler.com/2006/06/...ts_part_1.html
Your links dont work. but look at the dates. they were a long time ago and that was in the days of learning the rules I guess. its not defensible but understandable. plus I dont know enough about consent orders and what they really mean.
Also that was not pharmanex
[quote=Legaleagle;12244][quote=therealbt;12234]Now I understand your position. Just wasn't the right company or time for you.if thats not a rebuttal then I don't get that anything could ever be.
No. The baisc proposition of MLM is what isn't right, it makes no difference what product or company is involved.
I have read those articles. They are not detailed rebutals and are pretty much solid ad-hom against the whistleblowers and as such they do not take the arguement any further.
I suppose that supports being a Skeptic.
try this then: if you want a rebuttal of jon taylors comments about Len Clemensts
http://www.marketwaveinc.com/article...Rebuttal-1.pdf
You really Don't understand MLM do you.
How long were you with Amway?
I thought my original post made clear that I didn't join Amway but in case it did not I can assure you that I did notYou really Don't understand MLM do you.
How long were you with Amway?
As to whether I understand MLM... well, this seems to be your standard accusation which you have made to both John Jackson and myself in this thread... yet you have singularly failed to point out the false premises in our arguments which you have obviously identified... so over to you old chap, I am waiting to be educated.
As to the links, I am sorry if they don't work but I am sure if you type them into your google browser you will find the relevent reports as I did, and yes, they do relate to Pharmanex.
I note you haven't answered my original question: how much money do you make from MLM? What work do you do, and how many hours a week do you have to spend doing it?
Just so there is no misunderstanding, I am not considering participation in MLM, I just want to see some evidence backing up your repeated assertions that MLM is more lucrative than ordinary employment.
Is that Amways Line?An aspect of the “scam” is to make people think they are “running their own business” selling in an MLM system. I am watching someone who thinks she is running her own business and who is trying to recruit people and sell Amway products (UK Amivo). Some years ago she says she joined up with (then) Amway – but never made any money because she did no “recruiting”. She blamed herself. Another person I know also blames herself for not making money. She says that she could recruit people, but they wouldn’t buy the product.
So here, in a tiny town, we have two people who blame themselves because their “own” businesses didn’t make them any money. And now one poor deluded soul is trying AGAIN!
MLM is NOT “your own business”.
“Now you can own your own independent, home based business in a rapidly growing market that is expanding worldwide. How would you like to be the one to decide when you work, how long you work, how much you would like to earn and how soon you would like to retire? If you would like to take control of your future, then this unique, versatile and ethical business model is for you. With low start-up costs and a potential to generate thousands of dollars of residual income every month you can change your life.” (My bolding)
All this is a load of bolony!
In your own business you become more than diligent! You work your ass off night and day for many years before you get known. You sit up nights working out VAT or trying to balance the books. You wake up nights in a cold sweat because someone hasn’t paid you and you have to pay someone else. You slog your own guts out because there is not enough profit to pay staff. You don’t go away on holiday because you can’t afford to close your business. And you don’t mind because you are doing this entirely for YOURSELF.
When, at last, if you are lucky, things get stable and the business “takes off” (usually seven years or more to be an “overnight success”!!) everything about it, is ENTIRELY AND COMPLETELY YOURS. But God you worked for it – and that really feels wonderful!
Even if the person who is trying Amway AGAIN in our town was more than diligent– she would never get to this point. In seven years time, she will still just be a rep for Amway.
The rapidly growing market for Amway is Asia and the East. I find that an uncomfortable thought.
As for comparing apples to apples, I watched the video. I’m afraid I’m not a “supplement” person – I get nearly all the stuff my body needs from “food”. My hackles usually rise if someone mentions “health food” “supplements” and so on – but my WORST is “de-tox”! I have found my kidneys, liver and spleen etc work quite well just by themselves.
But that’s just me – I have found many people are more gullible. (nice pun!)
M
Not a company I would choose to work with if i was going to do MLM.
It is your own business as a sub conttractor to the business.
just like all the people and companies that built Wembley Stadium are sub contractors and own their own businesses.
You Dont get enough from food well certainly not enough for optimum health. You can't get enough nutrition from you food unless you eat masses and masses of fruit and vegetables, due to the depletion in nutrient levels caused by overfarming, fertilisers etc.etc, which is practically very difficult to do and as most people are not willing to change their lifestyles, they stay where they are. So suplementation is an option for those who want to continue with the eating habits that they have.
Do you know what the antioxidant levels are in your body?
Do some research on Free radicals and anti-oxidants. it might make you think
Heres the test from an article written in the Independent.
3.6 million people in Britain suffer from malnutrition. Hospitals see 44% rise in cases as cost to the NHS hits £7.3bn By Marie Woolf, Political Editor. Published: 06 May 2007
Alarming levels of malnutrition have been recorded in Britain, The Independent on Sunday has learned, prompting further medical concern at the effects of the nation's addiction to salty, fatty, junk food.
Despite high-profile campaigns by the Government and celebrity chefs to improve eating habits, new figures reveal that there has been a 44 per cent increase in hospital cases of malnutrition over the past five years.
Amid estimates that up to 3.6 million people are suffering from malnutrition, including conditions found in sub-Saharan Africa, MPs and doctors last night called for action to tackle poor diets, and for all patients to be screened for malnutrition. They called for the Government's National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) guidelines to be made compulsory.
In 2002, 2,729 people in English hospitals were diagnosed with malnutrition. Last year, the number had risen to 3,931.
The British Association for Parenteral and Enteral Nutrition estimates malnutrition costs the NHS more than £7.3bn a year, double the annual obesity bill. Doctors estimate that up to 6 per cent of the population could be suffering from malnutrition and serious vitamin and mineral deficiencies caused by poor diet. Most do not have their conditions identified.
Experts said a reliance on pre-prepared food and failure to eat enough fresh fruit and vegetables is depleting levels of essential micro-nutrients. The deficiencies are found in teenagers, the elderly, adults and babies as young as 18 months. They warn the balance of nutrients is also disturbed by binge drinking, excess sugar and drug use.
Dr Mike Stroud, senior lecturer at the Institute of Human Nutrition, University of Southampton, who chaired the group that drew up the Nice malnutrition guidelines, says the health service is not taking the problem seriously enough. "The modern diet is not providing enough vitamins. Malnourishment is going to make you more vulnerable to illnesses and less able to cope with them. The medical profession is only just beginning to take on board the implications of nutrition in patients."
I am not in an MLM company.
I have my own business. not mlm based.
there is a ton of evidence out there that you can earn a living at MLM certainly at the 25K a year level. I would expect that it would involve a lot of hard work though, however i suppose it does have the ability to allow you to work hard an reap the rewards.
you never answered my question
how long were you with Amway before you quit?
I thought my original post made clear that I didn't join Amway but in case it did not I can assure you that I did not
As to whether I understand MLM... well, this seems to be your standard accusation which you have made to both John Jackson and myself in this thread... yet you have singularly failed to point out the false premises in our arguments which you have obviously identified... so over to you old chap, I am waiting to be educated.
As to the links, I am sorry if they don't work but I am sure if you type them into your google browser you will find the relevent reports as I did, and yes, they do relate to Pharmanex.
the top link was nuskin so is not pharmanex related. Pharmanex didnt start till way after 97.
the other link is a dead link even with cut and paste
you havent shown me yet that you do understand MLM
i dont need to educate you. you could do that yourself if you so choose.
I'm very skeptical about the amount that you guys really know about MLM and where you got your information from.
Not that I'm Skeptical you'll understand old chap
Oops, Sorry, I got you mixed up with someone else on the Amway thing.I thought my original post made clear that I didn't join Amway but in case it did not I can assure you that I did not
As to whether I understand MLM... well, this seems to be your standard accusation which you have made to both John Jackson and myself in this thread... yet you have singularly failed to point out the false premises in our arguments which you have obviously identified... so over to you old chap, I am waiting to be educated.
As to the links, I am sorry if they don't work but I am sure if you type them into your google browser you will find the relevent reports as I did, and yes, they do relate to Pharmanex.
who were you with?
Well that is interesting. For all your talk about how MLM is a better way of earning a living than traditional businesses, you are not prepared to put your money where your mouth is and take up MLM yourself.
I am sure it is possible for some people to earn above £25k through MLM, but that does not mean that it MLM an easy way of earning this amount, particularly if it involves as much hard work as you seem to suggest.there is a ton of evidence out there that you can earn a living at MLM certainly at the 25K a year level. I would expect that it would involve a lot of hard work though, however i suppose it does have the ability to allow you to work hard an reap the rewards.
On the other hand, most reasonably-educated people can walk into a £25k 37-hour-a-week graduate job straight out of university, making it rather obviously a better option.
I was never in Amway, and have never participated in an MLM scheme of any kind.you never answered my question
how long were you with Amway before you quit?
So how do you know then?
on what authority and experience?
I would have thought that your dreams would have been bigger than a ceiling of 25k. You certainly have the capability and the potential of more. its just that your bosses arent going to pay it.
Perhaps we should go back to the original premise.
You guys at Skeptics suggest that MLM is a Scam and propoganda.
OK I accept the premise. now show me the PROOF. not just opinions. I want REAL proof. which I havent seen so far.
Come on guys lets see the real deal.
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